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Liver Transplantation for the Treatment of Liver Cancer

December 01, 2021
  • 00:00Funding for Yale Cancer Answers
  • 00:02is provided by Smilow Cancer
  • 00:04Hospital and AstraZeneca.
  • 00:08Welcome to Yale Cancer Answers with
  • 00:10your host doctor Anees Chagpar.
  • 00:12Yale Cancer Answers features the
  • 00:14latest information on cancer care by
  • 00:16welcoming oncologists and specialists
  • 00:17who are on the forefront of the
  • 00:20battle to fight cancer. This week,
  • 00:21it's a conversation about the care of
  • 00:23patients with liver cancer with doctor
  • 00:25Ariel Jaffe. Dr. Jaffe is an assistant
  • 00:27professor of medicine and the section of
  • 00:30digestive diseases at the Yale School
  • 00:32of Medicine where Doctor Chagpar is
  • 00:34a professor of surgical oncology.
  • 00:37Ariel, maybe we can start off by
  • 00:38you telling us a little bit about
  • 00:40yourself and what exactly you do.
  • 00:43Sure, so basically I specialize
  • 00:45in the care of patients that have
  • 00:48advanced liver disease and I work
  • 00:50both in the transplant program,
  • 00:53so patients who need to go on
  • 00:55to have a liver transplant,
  • 00:56and also patients
  • 00:58that develop liver cancer,
  • 00:59which is an extremely common
  • 01:01complication in patients that
  • 01:03have chronic liver disease.
  • 01:05So let's talk a little bit about that.
  • 01:08So when you're talking about
  • 01:11patients who require transplant,
  • 01:13what kinds of conditions
  • 01:15require liver transplants?
  • 01:17I mean, are these patients who
  • 01:21have hepatitis, cirrhosis, tell
  • 01:23us a little bit more about what
  • 01:25kinds of conditions will lead
  • 01:27you down the path of transplant?
  • 01:31Most commonly, patients that develop
  • 01:33end stage liver disease, which is
  • 01:35what we commonly know
  • 01:37as cirrhosis are the ones that we
  • 01:39do evaluate for liver transplant,
  • 01:41and that could be from a variety
  • 01:43of different causes.
  • 01:43Some which you alluded to.
  • 01:45You know patients that
  • 01:47have chronic viral disease.
  • 01:49Certain toxins, like alcohol use,
  • 01:51certain genetic disorders,
  • 01:53patients with obesity and diabetes which
  • 01:56can lead to fatty liver and
  • 01:59go on to develop
  • 02:00end stage liver disease.
  • 02:02Once you start to have
  • 02:03complications from that,
  • 02:04we generally start to consider
  • 02:06you for transplant.
  • 02:08There are a subset of patients who may
  • 02:10actually have really well preserved
  • 02:12liver function and look and feel well,
  • 02:15but in patients that develop liver cancer,
  • 02:17which sort of as I mentioned,
  • 02:18is an extremely common complication,
  • 02:218 to 10% of patients with
  • 02:23cirrhosis will develop cancer each year.
  • 02:26That's another indication in which we
  • 02:28go on to consider them for transplant.
  • 02:31Because
  • 02:31transplant will not only cure the cancer,
  • 02:33but it will actually cure their
  • 02:35underlying liver disease,
  • 02:36which is the major risk factor
  • 02:38for their cancer development.
  • 02:41So tell us a little bit more
  • 02:43about that in terms of cancer.
  • 02:46Are all patients with liver cancer
  • 02:48candidates for
  • 02:51transplant or is it only those
  • 02:53who have that underlying chronic
  • 02:55liver disease that would make them
  • 02:58potentially a candidate anyways?
  • 03:01So not all patients are
  • 03:04candidates for transplant.
  • 03:05The majority of patients who
  • 03:07develop liver cancer will have some
  • 03:09form of chronic liver disease,
  • 03:11but interestingly, we're actually
  • 03:12seeing a unique population who don't
  • 03:15have underlying advanced liver disease
  • 03:17go on to develop liver cancer and it's
  • 03:20a little bit of a controversial field
  • 03:21if those patients should be
  • 03:25considered for transplant or not.
  • 03:27But in terms of those that
  • 03:29may have chronic liver disease
  • 03:30and develop liver cancer,
  • 03:32there are certain criteria that need
  • 03:33to be met for patients to be considered
  • 03:36for transplant and some of that includes
  • 03:38how extensive their liver cancer is.
  • 03:41So for example,
  • 03:42if it's spread outside of the liver,
  • 03:45they would not be good
  • 03:46candidates for transplant,
  • 03:47or if they have a large amount
  • 03:50of tumors within the liver,
  • 03:52they would not be considered
  • 03:54good candidates.
  • 03:55We also sometimes like to look at
  • 03:57patients if they have recurrent cancer.
  • 04:01We're more likely to consider them
  • 04:03for transplant or if their underlying
  • 04:05liver is really very very sick so
  • 04:07that they have other complications of
  • 04:09liver disease in addition to cancer,
  • 04:12then you know,
  • 04:13we're more likely to want to pursue
  • 04:15transplant in those patients.
  • 04:18One of the things that
  • 04:20people might be thinking about when
  • 04:22we think about transplant is that
  • 04:25oftentimes people
  • 04:27may be under the impression
  • 04:29that patients who have cancers,
  • 04:31for example, may not be a potential
  • 04:36recipient of organs,
  • 04:39but it sounds like for liver cancer,
  • 04:42that's not the case, that
  • 04:44if you have liver cancer,
  • 04:46even if it's recurrent liver cancer,
  • 04:49you can still be on the organ
  • 04:53recipient list.
  • 04:54Is that right?
  • 04:55Yes, actually
  • 04:56it's a really unique cancer and
  • 04:58you're very spot on with that.
  • 05:00In that transplant is
  • 05:02considered one of the curative therapies,
  • 05:06and it really can't have spread outside
  • 05:07of the liver or you can't have
  • 05:09such an extensive tumor burden.
  • 05:11But because you're really
  • 05:13replacing the liver,
  • 05:15you're not only treating the cancer,
  • 05:16but you're sort of getting rid of
  • 05:18the damaged organ because we like
  • 05:20to think of liver cancer in
  • 05:23particular as sort of a complication
  • 05:25of a failing organ.
  • 05:27I think it's an important perspective to have.
  • 05:32Yeah, it does not mean that
  • 05:34you're not a candidate.
  • 05:34It's actually one of the most
  • 05:36curative therapies and really
  • 05:38currently in the United States,
  • 05:39honestly,
  • 05:40about a quarter of transplants
  • 05:41are done for the indication
  • 05:43of having liver cancer.
  • 05:45Wow, so the other thing that we often
  • 05:48think about when we think about transplant
  • 05:52is the universal shortage of organs.
  • 05:55Liver is one of those nice organs that there
  • 05:59is a potential for a living related donor.
  • 06:02How often is that used in
  • 06:05patients who have liver cancer?
  • 06:07Can you talk a little bit more about that?
  • 06:09Definitely so the liver is
  • 06:13just one of the most remarkable
  • 06:15organs, and its ability to regenerate.
  • 06:17So in certain patients who are
  • 06:20candidates for a living donor organ,
  • 06:23meaning that a part of the liver is taken
  • 06:25from a donor and put into the recipient and
  • 06:28it will actually grow to a normal size,
  • 06:30usually in about 12 weeks time.
  • 06:34To determine if someone is
  • 06:36a candidate for a living donor,
  • 06:37there's a few factors that we
  • 06:39have to take into account.
  • 06:41One is the size of the patient
  • 06:43because there's a certain sort of
  • 06:47massive liver that you would need
  • 06:49to sufficiently
  • 06:52do its job in a person.
  • 06:54So if you're a really really
  • 06:57big guy or big girl,
  • 06:59your candidates might be limited.
  • 07:01You would really need someone who is
  • 07:03equally as tall or as large as you.
  • 07:05The second thing is,
  • 07:07if you're really incredibly sick and have a
  • 07:10lot of complications from your liver disease,
  • 07:12there's concern that you may not be able
  • 07:14to tolerate just a piece of an organ.
  • 07:16So it's actually something
  • 07:18that we use quite often,
  • 07:22and it varies based on programs and
  • 07:24how large the programs are,
  • 07:26but we definitely do a lot of
  • 07:28living donors in our center here,
  • 07:31and it's a really a great option
  • 07:33for a certain subset of patients.
  • 07:36And tell us a little
  • 07:38bit more about how that works,
  • 07:40because I think that for many people
  • 07:43just the thought of having a relative
  • 07:47or a loved one being diagnosed with
  • 07:50a potentially treatable cancer,
  • 07:52but that you can help with,
  • 07:54you can help give them a new life,
  • 08:01is really awesome in terms of the actual
  • 08:04benefit that you can provide,
  • 08:07but people may have some
  • 08:09questions about that.
  • 08:10Yes, so it's definitely a pretty
  • 08:14grueling process
  • 08:16and the way that it works
  • 08:19is once we determine that someone
  • 08:21is ineligible as a transplant candidate,
  • 08:23they're then open to have either relatives
  • 08:25or even just altruistic
  • 08:28donors that can call in and be screened
  • 08:31to see if they're compatible and
  • 08:33usually it starts with
  • 08:34just looking at blood typing to
  • 08:36see if there is a compatibility.
  • 08:38The rejection is a little bit different
  • 08:40in the liver compared to other organs,
  • 08:43so it's nice in that there's not
  • 08:46so many factors that have to be
  • 08:48directly matched to be
  • 08:51considered a compatible donor.
  • 08:52But once we think that there's
  • 08:54not going to be overt rejection,
  • 08:56and that really comes down a lot of
  • 08:58times to compatibility and blood typing.
  • 09:01We have a very strict process
  • 09:03to make sure that the donor itself
  • 09:05is someone who would do very well
  • 09:07going to surgery, that they have
  • 09:09no underlying liver disease,
  • 09:11and that ultimately we
  • 09:13feel would essentially come out
  • 09:15unscathed should they decide to go
  • 09:18forth with donating their liver.
  • 09:20It's extremely rare in general to have any
  • 09:24type of rejection from incompatibility.
  • 09:26Just because our ability to screen
  • 09:28and make sure that blood types and
  • 09:30things match is so great now,
  • 09:32so that's not generally a major
  • 09:35major concern,
  • 09:35but there's a lot of strict processes
  • 09:38in terms of making sure the size is
  • 09:41appropriate that the recipient,
  • 09:43whatever portion was donated,
  • 09:45that that would be enough for the patient
  • 09:48not to have what we call post operative
  • 09:50liver failure or liver insufficiency.
  • 09:54So I would say technology and our
  • 09:56screening strategies are just so
  • 09:58remarkable now that those
  • 10:00factors are really very well detailed
  • 10:03before we would proceed with any
  • 10:05type of living donor liver transplant.
  • 10:09And then after the transplant,
  • 10:11does the recipient stay on
  • 10:14immunosuppressive therapy for life?
  • 10:16Or how does that work?
  • 10:18Yeah, so there's variations
  • 10:21in the quantity of immunosuppression
  • 10:24in liver transplant recipients.
  • 10:26Generally within a year after transplant
  • 10:29you can get patients down to an extremely
  • 10:31low level of immunosuppression which
  • 10:34again is slightly different than
  • 10:36other organs where rejection rates
  • 10:37are much higher and it's interesting
  • 10:40because there are certain reports
  • 10:43of patients being able to completely
  • 10:45come off of immunosuppression.
  • 10:48And we've actually had a few patients
  • 10:50within our center that we've done that on.
  • 10:52It's a little bit higher risk,
  • 10:54and it requires some more close monitoring,
  • 10:56but I would say the vast majority of
  • 10:59patients are usually on at least one
  • 11:01medication for the duration of their life,
  • 11:04but it's again incredibly low
  • 11:07dose compared to the majority of
  • 11:09other organ transplant recipients.
  • 11:12And they quote cured?
  • 11:16Yeah, so that's
  • 11:17exactly the hope is
  • 11:20that from liver transplant,
  • 11:23you're essentially replacing the
  • 11:25entire organ, and so whatever the
  • 11:28etiology of that patients,
  • 11:30liver diseases is essentially cured.
  • 11:33Of course, there's a risk if
  • 11:36patients redevelop viral infections,
  • 11:38or if some of the risk factors
  • 11:40that led initially to their
  • 11:42liver disease are still present.
  • 11:44And I think a lot in our population
  • 11:46the common things are patients
  • 11:49who develop fatty liver disease
  • 11:51in the post transplant setting,
  • 11:53if they continue to
  • 11:55have diabetes or obesity,
  • 11:57you can develop recurrent
  • 11:58disease in the organ.
  • 11:59But if patients mitigate their risk
  • 12:03factors and go on to live a healthy life,
  • 12:06then yes, liver transplant is
  • 12:08curative not only for the cancer,
  • 12:10but again for the initial
  • 12:12cause of their cirrhosis.
  • 12:14And so for patients who have liver cancer
  • 12:18is transplant one of the things that
  • 12:20you think of first or do people have
  • 12:23to kind of go through chemotherapy?
  • 12:25At least in assessment of
  • 12:27surgical resection and so on?
  • 12:29Kind of the more commonplace
  • 12:31cancer therapies before you think
  • 12:33about transplant or is transplant
  • 12:35something that is now first line?
  • 12:39So it definitely is extremely
  • 12:41independent on each patient's case.
  • 12:44If we see a patient who has a single tumor,
  • 12:48that's very small in size,
  • 12:50and we think that we can cure them
  • 12:52with a local resection, meaning,
  • 12:54just cutting out a portion of that liver,
  • 12:57that's generally the first line
  • 12:59therapy that we would actually go to.
  • 13:01In patients that have more
  • 13:03advanced liver disease and other
  • 13:05complications from their liver,
  • 13:07if they develop a cancer
  • 13:08on top of that, we know that a transplant
  • 13:10would cure both of those aspects,
  • 13:12so I would not say it's often firstline,
  • 13:15but it's a curative approach that we
  • 13:18definitely have in the back of our heads
  • 13:20for a subset of patients that
  • 13:21would be good candidates.
  • 13:23Terrific, we're going to learn
  • 13:25a lot more about liver cancer and
  • 13:28transplant hepatology right after we
  • 13:30take a short break for a medical minute.
  • 13:33Please stay tuned to learn more
  • 13:34with my guest doctor Ariel Jaffe.
  • 13:37Funding for Yale Cancer Answers
  • 13:39comes from AstraZeneca, dedicated
  • 13:41to advancing options and providing
  • 13:43hope for people living with cancer.
  • 13:45More information at AstraZeneca Dash us.com.
  • 13:51Genetic testing can be useful for
  • 13:53people with certain types of cancer
  • 13:55that seem to run in their families.
  • 13:56Genetic counseling is a process that
  • 13:59includes collecting a detailed personal
  • 14:01and family history or risk assessment and
  • 14:04a discussion of genetic testing options.
  • 14:06Only about 5 to 10% of all cancers
  • 14:09are inherited, and genetic testing
  • 14:11is not recommended for everyone.
  • 14:13Individuals who have a personal and
  • 14:15or family history that includes
  • 14:17cancer at unusually early ages,
  • 14:20multiple relatives
  • 14:20on the same side of the family
  • 14:23with the same cancer,
  • 14:24more than one diagnosis of
  • 14:26cancer in the same individual,
  • 14:28rare cancers or a family history of a
  • 14:31known altered cancer predisposing gene
  • 14:33could be candidates for genetic testing.
  • 14:36Resources for genetic counseling and
  • 14:38testing are available at federally
  • 14:40designated comprehensive cancer
  • 14:41centers such as Yale Cancer Center
  • 14:44and at Smilow Cancer Hospital.
  • 14:46More information is available at
  • 14:49yalecancercenter.org. You're listening
  • 14:51to Connecticut Public Radio.
  • 14:53Welcome
  • 14:53back to Yale Cancer Answers.
  • 14:55This is doctor Anees Chagpar and I'm joined
  • 14:58tonight by my guest doctor Ariel Jaffe.
  • 15:00We're talking about patients with liver
  • 15:03cancer, and before the break we talked
  • 15:06about the whole aspect of transplant
  • 15:09as a potential curative modality for
  • 15:12patients with liver cancer. But Ariel,
  • 15:14just as we were heading to the break,
  • 15:16you mentioned that there are a
  • 15:18lot of other things that go into
  • 15:20thinking about liver cancer as well,
  • 15:22so I wanted to take a step back
  • 15:24and talk a little bit about
  • 15:26how common is liver cancer?
  • 15:30Primary liver cancer is actually
  • 15:33a quite significant global burden.
  • 15:35There's over 800,000 new
  • 15:37cases diagnosed each year,
  • 15:39and actually in the US in particular,
  • 15:41it's the fastest increasing cause
  • 15:43of cancer and the fastest increasing
  • 15:45cause of cancer related death.
  • 15:48When we talk about
  • 15:50primary liver cancer we mean cancer
  • 15:52that has originated and developed
  • 15:54in the liver from the beginning.
  • 15:56There are two main types that we think about,
  • 15:59so hepatocellular carcinoma,
  • 16:00probably accounts for 80 to
  • 16:0490% of primary liver cancer,
  • 16:06but another common type that we see
  • 16:08that often develops in patients with
  • 16:10chronic liver disease is something
  • 16:13called cholangiocarcinoma and
  • 16:14that arises in the biliary cells,
  • 16:16and these are the cells that line
  • 16:18the little lakes
  • 16:20and channels within the liver
  • 16:22that sort of drain and modify the
  • 16:24substance that the liver makes,
  • 16:25called bile.
  • 16:26When you think about
  • 16:28secondary liver cancer,
  • 16:30a lot of times what we're talking
  • 16:31about is metastatic disease,
  • 16:33so cancer that may have spread to the liver,
  • 16:36but that's really treated and
  • 16:38managed extremely differently
  • 16:39than primary liver cancer.
  • 16:42And so that's really fascinating.
  • 16:44I didn't realize that liver
  • 16:46cancer in the United States was the
  • 16:48the fastest growing in terms of
  • 16:50incidence and mortality. Why is that?
  • 16:53What are the risk factors that
  • 16:55predispose to liver cancer that
  • 16:58are factoring into this equation?
  • 17:00Or is it the risk factors?
  • 17:03Yes, so there's definitely been a shift
  • 17:05sort of in the risk factors globally where
  • 17:08prior the major causes of liver disease
  • 17:10used to really be chronic viral disease.
  • 17:13And mainly we're talking about
  • 17:15chronic hepatitis B and hepatitis C,
  • 17:18but with the ability to treat
  • 17:20hepatitis C and control hepatitis B,
  • 17:23and even prevent that with vaccinations
  • 17:27really in the Western world,
  • 17:28what we're seeing as the major cause of
  • 17:31liver disease is definitely what we call
  • 17:33Fatty liver disease or non-alcoholic
  • 17:36fatty liver disease, and
  • 17:38as we see a rise in the obesity epidemic,
  • 17:42we're seeing more and more patients that
  • 17:45develop complications such as diabetes,
  • 17:47high cholesterol,
  • 17:50central adiposity,
  • 17:52meaning
  • 17:53a lot of belly fat, which is inflammatory
  • 17:55bad fat that the body does not like,
  • 17:58and high blood pressure.
  • 18:01As we're seeing more patients
  • 18:03develop those complications,
  • 18:04we're seeing a rise in the
  • 18:06incidence of fatty liver disease.
  • 18:08It is certainly true that there's just
  • 18:11this exponential rise in obesity in
  • 18:14America and in the world quite frankly.
  • 18:17So let me ask you this, is it possible
  • 18:21to reverse that, if you lose weight,
  • 18:24do you reduce your risk of fatty
  • 18:27liver and therefore reduce your
  • 18:30risk of hepatocellular carcinoma?
  • 18:33Absolutely,
  • 18:34generally when patients have
  • 18:36developed cirrhosis which is really
  • 18:38advanced scarring within the liver,
  • 18:40we do say that you can't
  • 18:43reverse completely to having
  • 18:44a normal healthy liver,
  • 18:45but for a lot of patients who
  • 18:47are not quite yet cirrhotic,
  • 18:49or who may be cirrhotic but have active,
  • 18:52ongoing inflammation, which is a
  • 18:54big risk factor for
  • 18:56the development of cancer,
  • 18:57you can absolutely reduce the risk of
  • 19:00developing complications from liver disease,
  • 19:03and the development of liver cancer.
  • 19:05So in particular for fatty liver disease,
  • 19:08really the only kind of approved
  • 19:11therapy at this time is the
  • 19:13recommendation to lose weight.
  • 19:15And generally we say 5 to 10% of
  • 19:18weight loss has been associated
  • 19:20with reduction in inflammation
  • 19:22reduction in scarring of the liver,
  • 19:25and even reduction in the
  • 19:27potential to develop liver cancer.
  • 19:28And it's why we like to really tell
  • 19:31patients that a lot of the risk factors
  • 19:33to develop liver disease and liver
  • 19:35cancer are really preventable.
  • 19:36And you see and
  • 19:40treat patients with liver disease who may
  • 19:44be at risk of developing liver cancer,
  • 19:47and you also see patients who
  • 19:49have developed liver cancer.
  • 19:51You know if you tell them to lose weight,
  • 19:53that's often easier said than done.
  • 19:57Are there any specific recommendations
  • 19:59that you give patients?
  • 20:01I'm just thinking that our listeners
  • 20:03might be thinking, yeah,
  • 20:04I'd love to lose 5 to 10% of my body weight.
  • 20:08How exactly do I do that?
  • 20:10Yeah, so it is definitely
  • 20:12easier said than done,
  • 20:14and I think especially in the COVID era
  • 20:16where a lot of people were really
  • 20:18confined to their home,
  • 20:20it's been an even bigger challenge,
  • 20:22so oftentimes what I say to patients is,
  • 20:24we kind of go through what
  • 20:26they're eating and their physical activity.
  • 20:28And sometimes their food choices.
  • 20:30They may think that they're eating healthy,
  • 20:32but when we actually breakdown the calories
  • 20:34or the amount of sugar they're eating,
  • 20:37it's a lot more than they're aware of so
  • 20:39off the bat,
  • 20:40I always offer patients to speak with
  • 20:43nutrition because I think to have someone
  • 20:45hold you accountable and really go through
  • 20:48the target of each food
  • 20:51group and macro and micro nutrients
  • 20:53you should be hitting is very helpful.
  • 20:56We also have specific fatty liver
  • 20:58clinics and weight loss clinics here,
  • 21:00so there are definitely patients
  • 21:02even if they're dieting or exercising,
  • 21:05they're just really stuck in this
  • 21:07challenging place and they can't
  • 21:09get to an ideal body weight.
  • 21:10And in that situation there are
  • 21:12medications that are available to
  • 21:14sort of assist in weight loss.
  • 21:16So we have a lot of programs
  • 21:18and a lot of
  • 21:20ancillary help for patients that
  • 21:21really struggle.
  • 21:22Alright, so the news flash
  • 21:24there is talk to your doctor,
  • 21:27because there likely is
  • 21:29help available and we can
  • 21:31all get through this
  • 21:33and hopefully reduce our risk.
  • 21:35But Ariel, I want to just kind
  • 21:37of switch gears a little bit.
  • 21:39Let's suppose it's a little too late.
  • 21:41And we develop liver cancer.
  • 21:45How do you know that you
  • 21:47have developed liver cancer?
  • 21:49So how is that diagnosis made?
  • 21:51Are you going to have signs and symptoms?
  • 21:54Are you going to go yellow or is this
  • 21:56something that is picked up
  • 21:58incidentally?
  • 22:00That's a great question.
  • 22:01You know, the majority of patients
  • 22:04that develop liver cancer are really
  • 22:06asymptomatic until it becomes very advanced.
  • 22:09So at the time that someone may have
  • 22:11pain or start to have
  • 22:14some vague symptoms like weight
  • 22:16loss or significant fatigue or even
  • 22:18jaundice or yellowing of the eyes,
  • 22:21which suggests that there's either a
  • 22:23blockage in the liver or that the tumor
  • 22:26has spread so much in the liver that it's
  • 22:28just kind of taken over any remaining
  • 22:31normal tissue, that's often too late.
  • 22:32So really, what's incredibly important is
  • 22:35to identify patients that have chronic liver
  • 22:39disease or risk factors for liver cancer.
  • 22:42Some which include
  • 22:44poorly controlled diabetes,
  • 22:45heavy alcohol use, obesity,
  • 22:47and make sure that we're
  • 22:49screening those patients.
  • 22:51So really all major societies recommend
  • 22:53in patients with chronic liver disease
  • 22:56that every six months you're actually
  • 22:58screened for liver cancer with the
  • 23:00hopes that if you develop a cancer,
  • 23:02you can actually pick it up early.
  • 23:05And it's interesting because liver
  • 23:07cancer is the only solid organ tumor
  • 23:10that could actually be diagnosed
  • 23:12based on imaging alone,
  • 23:14so it has very unique features when we
  • 23:18do a CAT scan or an MRI that basically
  • 23:20allow us to definitively tell if this
  • 23:23is a hepatocellular carcinoma and
  • 23:25oftentimes we don't even have to do
  • 23:28a biopsy to confirm the diagnosis.
  • 23:31So people who have those risk factors
  • 23:34should have a CT or MRI every six months.
  • 23:38So we always recommend an ultrasound.
  • 23:40That's the first
  • 23:42step for screening,
  • 23:45and that's really just based
  • 23:46on sort of cost effectiveness,
  • 23:48and you know the fact that it is
  • 23:50fairly sensitive, but in some patients,
  • 23:52if their liver is very scarred down,
  • 23:55so you can't get a good look at that tissue,
  • 23:57or if there's a lot of obesity, because
  • 24:00a lot of fat in the belly can limit how
  • 24:02good of a look you can get.
  • 24:05In those cases,
  • 24:05you may then need to do more advanced
  • 24:08imaging, but generally once we see
  • 24:10something abnormal on an ultrasound,
  • 24:13the next step is to do a cross sectional
  • 24:16scan with either a CT or an MRI.
  • 24:19And so it's interesting
  • 24:21that liver cancers are one of
  • 24:24the few where you don't need a
  • 24:26biopsy to make that diagnosis.
  • 24:28So let's suppose you see that,
  • 24:31tell us about some of
  • 24:33the medical management,
  • 24:34some of the things that are coming
  • 24:36down the Pike short of transplant
  • 24:37that might be helpful in these patients.
  • 24:42Whenever someone has a new
  • 24:44diagnosis of liver cancer,
  • 24:45we always want to make sure that
  • 24:47it hasn't spread outside the liver.
  • 24:48So that's a big step,
  • 24:49because once it has spread,
  • 24:51your treatment is a little bit different,
  • 24:54and it's very important to look at a
  • 24:56patient's underlying liver function,
  • 24:58because that plays a major role in
  • 25:00understanding if they're eligible or
  • 25:02would tolerate certain treatments.
  • 25:04And outside of transplant,
  • 25:05we really do think of
  • 25:08liver cancer treatment in either
  • 25:10a curative approach or what's
  • 25:12called a palliative approach, and
  • 25:14transplant is one of the curative therapies,
  • 25:18but other curative therapies include
  • 25:20local resection and that's
  • 25:22when we cut out a small
  • 25:24piece where that tumor is
  • 25:26and of course,
  • 25:27someone has to be a good candidate
  • 25:29to undergo surgery and so if
  • 25:31they have really advanced liver
  • 25:32disease that would not be
  • 25:34an ideal treatment choice,
  • 25:36but other curative therapies
  • 25:39include something called ablation which
  • 25:42is really where you destroy the tumor and
  • 25:45that can be either through
  • 25:47thermal techniques,
  • 25:48radiation techniques,
  • 25:49electrical injury,
  • 25:50and then we think of some of our
  • 25:55palliative treatments which include
  • 25:57what we call local regional
  • 26:00therapies or transarterial therapies,
  • 26:02and that's basically where you can
  • 26:05either induce radiation damage
  • 26:07or locally give chemotherapy to
  • 26:10the tumor to kind of cut off the
  • 26:13blood supply and kill that tumor,
  • 26:15and then for patients
  • 26:16that either are just not responding
  • 26:18to those or where the cancer has
  • 26:20spread outside of the liver,
  • 26:21we start to think about systemic
  • 26:24therapy or chemotherapy.
  • 26:27And so you know,
  • 26:28I can imagine that no patient wants
  • 26:31to go through chemotherapy and
  • 26:33everybody has heard horror stories
  • 26:36about what chemotherapy is like.
  • 26:38But very often on this show we've been
  • 26:41talking about some of the newer advances,
  • 26:43especially in systemic therapy,
  • 26:45where we really are looking
  • 26:48towards personalized medicine,
  • 26:50sometimes immunotherapies.
  • 26:51Is there anything like that
  • 26:54going on in primary liver cancer?
  • 26:57Absolutely, so I think probably the
  • 27:00management for patients with liver cancer
  • 27:02that's more advanced has been one of the
  • 27:06most innovative
  • 27:08fields within liver cancer.
  • 27:10And that's because there have been so many
  • 27:13new advancements in systemic therapies.
  • 27:14Just a few years ago,
  • 27:17we just had one or two medications,
  • 27:20and now we have 10 FDA approved therapies.
  • 27:23And as of May 2020, so just a
  • 27:27little over a year ago,
  • 27:29a new combination therapy.
  • 27:32One of the components
  • 27:34was an immune checkpoint inhibitor,
  • 27:36which is one of our immunotherapy
  • 27:39medications that actually proved to
  • 27:41be the best first line therapy,
  • 27:42so it had improvement in overall
  • 27:45survival and disease
  • 27:46free progression compared to what our
  • 27:49prior first line was and is actually
  • 27:52now what we try to use for our patients.
  • 27:55And I think it's also important to know that
  • 27:58oftentimes,
  • 27:58when our patients hear that they're going
  • 28:01to go on systemic therapy or chemotherapy,
  • 28:04they kind of think of
  • 28:06the movies or loved ones that they've
  • 28:09seen have gotten really very sick.
  • 28:11Or their hair has fallen out or their
  • 28:13immune system is completely wiped out,
  • 28:16and the medications that we use to
  • 28:18treat liver cancer are definitely
  • 28:20much more tolerable
  • 28:22with significantly reduced side
  • 28:24effects compared to
  • 28:25what a lot of patients think about
  • 28:28for sort of standard chemotherapy
  • 28:29for other tumors.
  • 28:31Doctor Ariel Jaffe is an assistant
  • 28:33professor of medicine in the
  • 28:35section of digestive diseases
  • 28:36at the Yale School of Medicine.
  • 28:38If you have questions,
  • 28:40the address is cancer answers at
  • 28:42yale.edu and past editions of the
  • 28:44program are available in audio and
  • 28:47written form at yalecancercenter.org.
  • 28:48We hope you'll join us next week to
  • 28:51learn more about the fight against
  • 28:53cancer here on Connecticut Public Radio.
  • 28:54Funding for Yale Cancer
  • 28:56Answers is provided by Smilow
  • 28:57Cancer Hospital and AstraZeneca.