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The Impact of Therapy on Glioma Evolution

February 09, 2024
  • 00:00I think we can start to get in.
  • 00:02It's wonderful to be here this
  • 00:05morning and to introduce somebody
  • 00:07who is absolutely exceptional and
  • 00:09who is newly recruited to our
  • 00:12department in neurosurgery and also
  • 00:14to Smilo in the Cancer Center.
  • 00:16Dr. Rol Vierhok is Professor in
  • 00:18the Department of Neurosurgery
  • 00:20at the Yale School of Medicine.
  • 00:22Following graduation with a PhD
  • 00:24in Medicine from their Aerosmiths
  • 00:26University Medical Center in Rotterdam,
  • 00:28the Netherlands Role joined the
  • 00:31Broad Institute Dana Farber Cancer
  • 00:33Institute as a postdoctoral associate,
  • 00:36supported by a fellowship from the Dutch
  • 00:39Cancer Society during the time at the Broad,
  • 00:41he was part of the team
  • 00:42analyzing data from the TCGA.
  • 00:44He led the Identification and
  • 00:47Characterization of Gene Expression
  • 00:49subtypes and glioblastoma work
  • 00:51that resulted in a Seminole Cancer
  • 00:54Cell 2010 publication will move
  • 00:56to MD Anderson Cancer Center in
  • 00:592010 to start his own laboratory.
  • 01:02Since then,
  • 01:03the Veerhawk lab has studied tumor
  • 01:05evolution and mechanisms of therapy
  • 01:07resistance in low and high grade gliomas.
  • 01:10The group was foundational
  • 01:12in establishing the Glioma
  • 01:13Longitudinal Analysis Consortium,
  • 01:15which has established a resource of
  • 01:18molecular profiles over time on a
  • 01:20large cohort of patients with glioma.
  • 01:22They identified and described genetic
  • 01:24scars and cellular phenotypes
  • 01:26associated with glioma progression
  • 01:28and disease recurrence.
  • 01:30Extra chromosomal DNA amplifications were
  • 01:32discovered as critical drivers and are
  • 01:35now a major part of the team's research.
  • 01:37After being affiliated with
  • 01:39the Jackson Jackson Laboratory
  • 01:40for Genomic Medicine in 2016.
  • 01:42I can tell you our department leadership
  • 01:45fought very hard to recruit him
  • 01:48here to Yale and he joined us in the
  • 01:51Department of Neurosurgery in 2023.
  • 01:52Roll is a recipient of the
  • 01:55AAAS Watchal Award,
  • 01:56the Agilent the Early Career Professor
  • 01:59Award and the Peter Stack Memorial Award.
  • 02:02He's also Co founder of Boundless Bio.
  • 02:05I can tell you in the short time that I've
  • 02:06had the privilege of working with him,
  • 02:08he's truly exceptional and I'm really
  • 02:10excited for this talk and for all
  • 02:13of the work that we have to come.
  • 02:15So without further ado,
  • 02:17thank you so much Doctor Veerhark.
  • 02:20Thanks Jennifer.
  • 02:21That very, very kind introduction.
  • 02:23And so I joined the Department
  • 02:25of Neurosurgery in April of last
  • 02:29year after some discussions with
  • 02:30Doctor Grinnell and others.
  • 02:31And to be honest, it wasn't that hard.
  • 02:33I was pretty convinced very quickly
  • 02:35that this was going to be a great
  • 02:37place to continue our research.
  • 02:39As we were thinking about
  • 02:40becoming more translational,
  • 02:42it was we felt that we that being
  • 02:43in a clinical environment would we
  • 02:45greatly benefit our work and what
  • 02:48what grader clinical environment
  • 02:50and Yale School of Medicine and
  • 02:52department of Neurosurgery.
  • 02:53So I'm a Co founder of a biotech that
  • 02:56won't be discussing that work today.
  • 02:59I am also a consultant for neurotrials.
  • 03:03So gliomas are the most common
  • 03:07molecular tumor type in an in adult
  • 03:11patients and the most devastating ones.
  • 03:13They're characterized by an infiltrative
  • 03:15growth into the environment,
  • 03:16into the parencoa,
  • 03:17and this makes these tumors
  • 03:19exceptionally hard to treat because
  • 03:20she can't go in with a knife and
  • 03:22cut out the entire the entire
  • 03:24structure for obvious reasons.
  • 03:27Nowadays we recognize traditionally
  • 03:29we would classify gliomas in
  • 03:32adult patients by histopathology.
  • 03:34Fortunately, we've gotten away from
  • 03:36that as molecular markers do much more
  • 03:39precise job in doing such classification.
  • 03:41Nowadays we recognize gliomas based
  • 03:44on two critical molecular markers.
  • 03:461st, we set, we identified the presence
  • 03:49of absence of a mutation in IDH one
  • 03:52or IDH 2 isocitrate dehydrogenate.
  • 03:54And for those cases that carry an
  • 03:56IDH 1 mutation or an IDH 2 mutation,
  • 03:58we further separate them by the presence
  • 04:00of our absence of 1P19Q code deletion.
  • 04:02So from some arm loss of 1P and 19 Q 19 Q.
  • 04:06Predominantly the cases that
  • 04:08have this code deletion,
  • 04:10we call them codels are a majority
  • 04:13isopathologically all it goes non code
  • 04:15L So those cases that are IDH mutated
  • 04:18but don't have that code deletion
  • 04:20are in majority astrocytomas and the
  • 04:22IDH wild type cases are mostly the
  • 04:24glioblastomas and the patients survival
  • 04:27patterns are according meaning that
  • 04:29those cases that have no IDH mutation
  • 04:32do particularly poorly clinically.
  • 04:35That's not to say that any of these
  • 04:38tuber types are better to have
  • 04:39quote UN quote this as far as you
  • 04:41can ever better have a tumor.
  • 04:43Patients that are that carry the IDH
  • 04:46mutant non CODEL tumors are typically
  • 04:49diagnosed between 35 and 44 years of age,
  • 04:52so very young in life.
  • 04:54The codel patient typically
  • 04:56is around 45 years of age.
  • 04:58So again relatively early in life.
  • 05:00So those patients might have much
  • 05:02better outcomes but they'll mostly
  • 05:04the majority will still succumb to
  • 05:06disease even prior to the median
  • 05:07age of diagnosis for IDH wild
  • 05:09type tumors which is around 60.
  • 05:11So these are all bad tumors.
  • 05:15Here's the motivation for classifying
  • 05:19gliomas by these two molecular markers.
  • 05:22And in part it's of course
  • 05:23it's clinically it's,
  • 05:24it's the survival outcomes as I
  • 05:26showed you on the previous slide.
  • 05:27But here in this paper
  • 05:30from the TCGA from 2015,
  • 05:32we demonstrated that not only behave
  • 05:34these tumors differently and respond,
  • 05:37they they respond different to treatments,
  • 05:39but they're really biologically
  • 05:41different entities as reflected in
  • 05:43the sets of molecular alterations
  • 05:46that are commonly detected.
  • 05:48For example,
  • 05:49in the codel group we find that they
  • 05:52are nearly universally carrying
  • 05:54mutations in the Turk promoter,
  • 05:57as well as relatively spurious mutations
  • 06:00in genes like Notch One and NCIC.
  • 06:04The non codels,
  • 06:05even though they are IDH mutated,
  • 06:07rarely contain Turk promoter mutations
  • 06:11but are universally mutated in P53 and
  • 06:1475% carry hairy alterations in ATRX.
  • 06:17So very similar tumor types but
  • 06:19molecularly quite different.
  • 06:21And then finally IDH wild type tumors
  • 06:24again 80% are turb promoter mutated and
  • 06:28they are then a majority containing
  • 06:31mutations in genes like e.g., FRCDK,
  • 06:33N2AP10 and so on and so forth.
  • 06:35So biological not just responding
  • 06:37differently to treatment,
  • 06:38not just different at in terms
  • 06:40of at when they present in life,
  • 06:42but biologically also quite different.
  • 06:47Now after we were able to refine the
  • 06:51classification of gliomas in adult patients,
  • 06:54a major next a major challenge
  • 06:55continues to be how these tumors
  • 06:57respond to treatment and the lack of
  • 06:58new treatments coming into the clinic.
  • 07:03Now tumors initiate from a cell
  • 07:05of origin and over time as these
  • 07:07cells respond to challenges
  • 07:08in the tumor microenvironment,
  • 07:10for example presence of oxygen,
  • 07:12lack of nutrients and so forth,
  • 07:14you'll find that intratumoral
  • 07:16heterogeneity starts to develop.
  • 07:18And this is a consequence of
  • 07:20these evolutionary processes and
  • 07:21clonal selection where some cells
  • 07:23are better able to deal with
  • 07:25these limitations than others.
  • 07:27Therefore they become they they
  • 07:30they show clonal outgrowth.
  • 07:31So at the time of diagnosis we're
  • 07:33dealing with an with an heterogeneous
  • 07:36tumor with different sets of tumor
  • 07:38cells marked by specific and mutations
  • 07:39and other kinds of gene alterations.
  • 07:43Now critically this process doesn't
  • 07:45end a diagnosis of course we impose
  • 07:48treatments onto these tumors.
  • 07:49You know surgery initially debulking
  • 07:52surgery combined with radiation and
  • 07:55chemotherapy which for gliomas in
  • 07:57majority is stemozolamide, stemozolamide.
  • 08:01And of course these treatments
  • 08:04continue to impose these bottlenecks
  • 08:06onto the tumor and those cells
  • 08:09best able to deal with radiation,
  • 08:11best able to deal with chemotherapy
  • 08:13are the ones that are going to fuel
  • 08:15the outgrowth and the tumor recurrence.
  • 08:18So we felt that this would be,
  • 08:19this would be an important process
  • 08:22to study so that we could try and
  • 08:24make these treatments more effective
  • 08:26and potentially identify targets
  • 08:28for new treatment development.
  • 08:32So with that in mind,
  • 08:33we started the Glioma Longitudinal
  • 08:35Analysis or Glass Consortium in 2015.
  • 08:39The glass consortium has set out to
  • 08:42developed on the tail ends of the
  • 08:44TCGA and it set out to develop a
  • 08:47comprehensive molecular reference data
  • 08:48set from pairs of tumors obtained and
  • 08:52diagnosis and then after treatment,
  • 08:53so the first tumor recurrence.
  • 08:55But in reality we have been collecting
  • 08:57tumors along the whole trajectory.
  • 08:59So we have cases now for glass where we
  • 09:02have 6 recurrences consecutively and
  • 09:04we've molecularly characterized them.
  • 09:06In other words, we've sequenced them.
  • 09:08And then critically for glass,
  • 09:10we really try to curate and obtain
  • 09:14clinical annotation for all cases in
  • 09:17the cohort because the value of a
  • 09:20resource like this is significantly
  • 09:22amplified if we know which tumors
  • 09:24got treated in between time plans.
  • 09:26Now why that we needed to do
  • 09:28a consortium for this,
  • 09:30it's because of things like patient
  • 09:32mobility and the way tumor banks work.
  • 09:34If you go to your average tumor bank,
  • 09:36surely you'll find some tumors for which
  • 09:39there's multiple time point specimens.
  • 09:41But even for MD Anderson where I
  • 09:43used to where we used to be one of
  • 09:46the largest centers in the country,
  • 09:48we were limited to a few dozen
  • 09:50cases where we would have these
  • 09:52multi time point specimens.
  • 09:53And then as you're dealing with
  • 09:55attrition due to tissue quality,
  • 09:56at the end of the day,
  • 09:58you really need an international
  • 10:00collaboration to get to the large enough
  • 10:03numbers to do any kind of robust analysis.
  • 10:07So we started the consortium also
  • 10:09still being enthusiastic of how well
  • 10:11the TCJ collaboration went for us
  • 10:13and now have developed a consortium
  • 10:15that involves over 140 people
  • 10:17spread across the globe essentially
  • 10:19in 14 different countries.
  • 10:21This is an older picture actually.
  • 10:23If you would take a picture now,
  • 10:24it would fill the room.
  • 10:27So an important purpose of Glass
  • 10:31is not just to create this,
  • 10:33this data set but also to share it
  • 10:36broadly just like the TCA so that
  • 10:38not just we can do interesting
  • 10:40analysis with them but of course
  • 10:42that the whole community can do so.
  • 10:43So in 2022 we released our latest
  • 10:46public version of the glass data
  • 10:48resource which is a cohort of 300
  • 10:50/ 300 patients for whom we have
  • 10:53collected multi timepoint DNA
  • 10:55sequencing and or RNA sequencing.
  • 10:58Now these 300 patients and I can tell
  • 11:00you in the meantime now we're 2024,
  • 11:02we've nearly doubled the cohort size
  • 11:04and we'll be releasing that soon.
  • 11:06So we continue to actively expand
  • 11:08this cohort
  • 11:11Right now in our code if you
  • 11:12go to the URL shown here,
  • 11:14you can find variants in clinical
  • 11:16annotation for over 300 cases of
  • 11:19which in majority are from IDH wild
  • 11:22type tumors followed by the non
  • 11:24Codells Finally the Codells as you
  • 11:26can see we have a relative under
  • 11:28representation of Codells here and
  • 11:30that's likely due to the longer
  • 11:31time to recurrence or Codell tumors
  • 11:33compared to IDs wild type tumors.
  • 11:35The shorter the time to recurrence,
  • 11:38the higher the likelihood that two tumor
  • 11:40specimens will end up in the same tumor bank.
  • 11:42In addition to that RE resection is not
  • 11:44standard for any of these and so that's
  • 11:47another factor that comes into play here.
  • 11:50You can maybe appreciate that the
  • 11:52median age of diagnosis in these
  • 11:54three groups is relatively young.
  • 11:57And that is because in order to end up for
  • 11:59data to end up in our in our resource,
  • 12:02the patient has to have had two surgical
  • 12:06procedures in order to obtain specimens,
  • 12:08meaning that the patient has had to
  • 12:10be in relatively good shape to be
  • 12:12able to undergo those procedures.
  • 12:13So we see a bit of a bias in
  • 12:15median aid to diagnosis as well as
  • 12:18in survival patterns shown here.
  • 12:20That is what it is.
  • 12:21We can't really address that.
  • 12:23We try to address it by expanding
  • 12:25the resources large as we can so
  • 12:27that we kept capture as many patient
  • 12:29groups as we can.
  • 12:30Finally, I'm going to point out that
  • 12:32our annotation in my opinion is really great.
  • 12:34So we know for all patients whether
  • 12:36they or nearly all patients,
  • 12:38whether they have received tamizolamides,
  • 12:40yes or no and whether they have
  • 12:41received radio radiation therapy,
  • 12:42yes or no.
  • 12:43And we've got many more clinical variables.
  • 12:46I just chose to highlight these
  • 12:47on this on this particular slide.
  • 12:50So I, in my opinion,
  • 12:51it's really becoming a phenomenal resource.
  • 12:55Now what can you do with a
  • 12:56resource like this?
  • 12:57I think you can do many things.
  • 12:58But we initially started,
  • 13:00we initially focused on
  • 13:012 important questions.
  • 13:02First,
  • 13:03what is the impact of temozolomite on
  • 13:05tumor evolution and on these gliomas?
  • 13:08And 2nd,
  • 13:08what is the impact of radiation?
  • 13:13So treatment with temozolomite.
  • 13:15Temozolomite is a DE alkylating agent.
  • 13:18The repair process of the DE
  • 13:20alkylation shows up in can show up
  • 13:23as mutations and nucleotide changes.
  • 13:26Nucleotide changes can conveniently
  • 13:28be detected using sequencing,
  • 13:30and that means that in a subset of tumors
  • 13:32that are treated with temozolomide,
  • 13:34A hypermutation phenotype will develop.
  • 13:37So these are tumors where cells
  • 13:38have been able to overcome the
  • 13:40damaging effect of temozolomide,
  • 13:42and they do so by repairing the
  • 13:44damage caused by temozolomide,
  • 13:45and the damage is then showing
  • 13:47up as hypermutation.
  • 13:48Very high mutational burdens
  • 13:52across our cohort and this is slightly
  • 13:54older version of our data set.
  • 13:56But across our cohort we then see
  • 13:58that when we compare mutational
  • 14:00burden of the initial tumor and the
  • 14:02post TMZ treated recurrent tumor,
  • 14:04so this is only TMZ treated cases,
  • 14:08we see very high mutational burdens in
  • 14:10these recurrences and this is a log scale.
  • 14:11So we chose a cutoff of 10
  • 14:14mutations per megabase here.
  • 14:17So across the three subtypes of glioma,
  • 14:20we see that a subset recurs as hypermutated.
  • 14:24The relative frequencies differ by subtypes,
  • 14:27ID 12 type tumors 15 to 16%.
  • 14:30For the IDH mutant tumors,
  • 14:32we see that the rate of hypermutation
  • 14:35development is much higher.
  • 14:37We think this is due to the fact that
  • 14:39IDH mutated tumors take longer to recur.
  • 14:42Therefore, there's a more of an
  • 14:44opportunity for hypermutation to develop.
  • 14:50Hypermutation has been associated
  • 14:52with relatively poor outcomes.
  • 14:54What we found when we EPL evaluated
  • 14:57the presence of hypermutation
  • 14:58in TMZ treated tumors and then
  • 15:00compared to time to progression,
  • 15:02that it's actually similar
  • 15:04between non hypermutated.
  • 15:05So tumors that did not become hypermutated
  • 15:08versus those that did become hypermutated.
  • 15:10So time to progression doesn't really
  • 15:13depend on the development of hypermutation,
  • 15:15but once a tumor has become hypermutated,
  • 15:18so after that recurrence the hypermutators
  • 15:20do worse than the non hypermutators.
  • 15:26That's not to say that we shouldn't be
  • 15:29treating these patients with tenozolamide.
  • 15:31Clinical trials such as the CAD non study
  • 15:34from the ERTC have clearly demonstrated
  • 15:36that tenozolamide has significant
  • 15:38benefits across the patient population.
  • 15:41So even though sometimes people will argue,
  • 15:43well temozolomite causes hypermutation,
  • 15:45hypermutation is bad.
  • 15:47As a patient group,
  • 15:49temozolomite is clearly beneficial.
  • 15:56Emma and Kevin in our lab then chose
  • 16:00to study similar questions but then
  • 16:02for response to radiation therapy which
  • 16:04causes a different type of DNA damage.
  • 16:07It causes single single strand breaks
  • 16:09as well as double strand breaks.
  • 16:14And Long story short,
  • 16:17they discovered that when comparing
  • 16:19cases not treated with radiation to
  • 16:22those that are treated with radiation,
  • 16:24that treated cases develop a
  • 16:27relatively high number of small 2
  • 16:30to 20 base pair deletions across
  • 16:32their scattered across their genome.
  • 16:35So it's a bit of a similar
  • 16:37phenomenon to hypermutation,
  • 16:38but instead of single nucleotide changes,
  • 16:41we found that radiation drives small
  • 16:44deletions and in the treated cases we
  • 16:46see significantly more small deletions
  • 16:48arise compared to the untreated cases.
  • 16:53Now radiation and temozolomide are
  • 16:55often used in combination its standard
  • 16:57of care for IDH wild type tumors.
  • 17:00So are we observing this increase in
  • 17:02small deletions because some of these
  • 17:05tumors will are developing hypermutation?
  • 17:11The answer is yes and no.
  • 17:13Meaning that when we split up our cohort
  • 17:16in those cases that are hypermutated
  • 17:18as well as radiation treated,
  • 17:20we find that hypermutation
  • 17:22independent of radiation actually.
  • 17:24So these are tumors that are hypermutated
  • 17:26and have not been treated with radiation
  • 17:28that they also show an increase
  • 17:32in the number of small deletions.
  • 17:34But importantly,
  • 17:35those that are not have been mutated
  • 17:37and have been radiated also show
  • 17:39that small deletion increase.
  • 17:41So hypermutation and radiation
  • 17:43are independent factors driving
  • 17:45the increase in small deletions.
  • 17:48And in that sense small deletions,
  • 17:50the small deletion increase
  • 17:52burden increase is comparable to
  • 17:54hypermutation for actemozolamide.
  • 17:56And in our paper we actually found
  • 17:59that this is true across cancers,
  • 18:00not just gliomus,
  • 18:04Gemma and Kevin and also evaluated
  • 18:06anuploidies, in other words,
  • 18:08broad losses and gains.
  • 18:09So while small deletions will
  • 18:11arise from double strand breaks
  • 18:13that are subsequently repaired,
  • 18:16anuploidies typically are a
  • 18:17result of cell cycle of errors.
  • 18:19During the cell cycle,
  • 18:21for example MIS segregation,
  • 18:25we compared gains, broad gains and
  • 18:28broad losses and we did that between
  • 18:31irradiated cases and unirradiated
  • 18:33cases and found no difference in gains.
  • 18:37But we found a significantly higher
  • 18:39number of whole chromosome arm losses in
  • 18:43irradiated versus non irradiated tumors.
  • 18:45Similar to the small deletion increase,
  • 18:50now homocygous deletion of CDK
  • 18:51into A which is of course a cell
  • 18:55cycle regulator has previously been
  • 18:57associated with tumor progression
  • 18:59especially in Ida mutant tumors.
  • 19:03We compared not just homozygous
  • 19:05deletion but also hemisygous deletion
  • 19:07of CDK and to a first in untreated
  • 19:10initial tumors in glass this is
  • 19:12codels and non codels and this is
  • 19:14focusing on the IDH mutant tumors,
  • 19:16Codels versus non codels first
  • 19:18and we find that non codels have
  • 19:21a higher rate of CDK and to a
  • 19:23homozygous as well as semisygous loss,
  • 19:26but this is particular particularly
  • 19:28pronounced in recurrences.
  • 19:30So at recurrence non codal IDH
  • 19:32mutant tumors significantly show
  • 19:34a significant increase in the
  • 19:37number of CDK N to a homozygous
  • 19:38as well as hemisygous deletions.
  • 19:41And this is then particularly true
  • 19:44amongst irradiated tumors suggesting
  • 19:46that there's a relationship between
  • 19:48irradiation and CDK N to a loss.
  • 19:53And again the presence or the when
  • 19:56a CDK N to a loss either hemisygous
  • 19:59or homozygous has been acquired,
  • 20:02we see that that correlates associates
  • 20:04with worse outcomes to treatment.
  • 20:10We then evaluated the association between
  • 20:13these broad aneuploidies and CDK into a loss.
  • 20:17Here we grouped a bunch of cases.
  • 20:19Actually this is not class data,
  • 20:21this is span cancer data.
  • 20:22We grouped those cases by non irradiated.
  • 20:26Palliatively irradiated.
  • 20:27So lower doses and accuratively irradiated
  • 20:30tumors and find that the increase in
  • 20:34the number of chromosome losses is
  • 20:36actually only found in tumors that
  • 20:38have homozygous deletion of CDK into A.
  • 20:40So while we previously showed
  • 20:43that irradiation appears to
  • 20:45drive broad chromosome losses,
  • 20:48what we're actually seeing is that
  • 20:51irradiation associates with CDK into a loss,
  • 20:53and it's really the CDK into a loss
  • 20:56that then associates with aneuploidy
  • 20:59because we're seeing a significant
  • 21:00increase in the number of chromosome
  • 21:02losses in unirradiated cases when
  • 21:04homozygous loss of CDK into A is present.
  • 21:08So irradiation itself does not
  • 21:10appear to drive aneuploidy.
  • 21:11It appears to drive CDK into a loss,
  • 21:13which then drives to aneuploidy.
  • 21:17And as with the hypermutation example,
  • 21:21we're finding no significant
  • 21:22difference in surgical interval in
  • 21:25irradiated cases associating with the
  • 21:28number of acquired small deletions.
  • 21:30But post recurrence,
  • 21:31those tumors that acquire the most,
  • 21:33the highest number of new small
  • 21:35deletions are the ones that stop
  • 21:37responding to further therapy
  • 21:39that have very poor outcomes.
  • 21:41So acquired small deletions are a marker
  • 21:43for further tumor response if you will.
  • 21:52So this is the model that
  • 21:53seems to arise from our data,
  • 21:54which is perhaps not super surprising.
  • 21:57These tumors as I started with
  • 22:00originate from a cell of origin
  • 22:02that starts to expand more
  • 22:03quickly than the cells around it.
  • 22:05And upon bottlenecks in
  • 22:07the tumor microenvironment,
  • 22:08subclones will further arise that
  • 22:10then at the time of the diagnosis
  • 22:12can be detected through sequencing.
  • 22:14Then we impose this therapeutic
  • 22:16barrier for surgery and then a chemo
  • 22:19and radio and those cancer cells that
  • 22:20are able to repair the DNA damage.
  • 22:22So the ones that have the hypermutation
  • 22:25phenotype or the ones that have acquired
  • 22:27large numbers of small deletions,
  • 22:29those are the ones that are
  • 22:30able to repair the A damage and
  • 22:32can subsequently be detected,
  • 22:34have expanded sufficiently,
  • 22:35have become large enough subclones that
  • 22:38we can detect them through sequencing.
  • 22:40So then it's not surprising that
  • 22:42in recurrence these tumors that
  • 22:44have these genomic scars,
  • 22:45these signatures are the ones
  • 22:46that have poor outcomes and stop
  • 22:48responding to treatment because
  • 22:50you're looking at cells that have
  • 22:52already been able to have already
  • 22:54shown that they don't care about
  • 22:55further DNA damage or they don't
  • 22:57care about chemo radiotherapy.
  • 23:01Now when you summarize these
  • 23:03numbers across our glass cohort,
  • 23:07we see that amongst IDs wild type
  • 23:09tumors that have been treated with
  • 23:11temozolomide and or radiation that 15%
  • 23:14develops the hypermutation phenotype.
  • 23:17And of those that are that do not
  • 23:19develop the hypermutation phenotype,
  • 23:20another 16% requires large numbers
  • 23:23of small deletion which leaves a
  • 23:26relatively large group in which no
  • 23:31genomic scars can be detected,
  • 23:33A recurrence and they may have
  • 23:35intrinsic mechanisms to deal with
  • 23:38the toxic effects of therapy.
  • 23:41When we look at IDH mutant
  • 23:43tumors where the picture is more
  • 23:45diverse because not all patients
  • 23:47will receive the same therapies,
  • 23:49we find that amongst those that have
  • 23:50been treated with temozolomide,
  • 23:5242% acquires hypermutation,
  • 23:5335% of non hypermutators acquires
  • 23:56the small deletion phenotype and
  • 23:59again a subset shows neither.
  • 24:04Now as Jen mentioned in the intro and
  • 24:07previous work we have looked at gene
  • 24:09expression patterns and this is focusing
  • 24:12on GBM so IDH small type tumors.
  • 24:14And we found that when we evaluate gene
  • 24:17expression patterns we can and identify 3
  • 24:20gene expression subtypes of glioblastoma,
  • 24:22IDH well type glioblastoma which we labeled
  • 24:24mesenchymal per neural and classical.
  • 24:28When we evaluate A subtype classification
  • 24:31in glass we see that you know we
  • 24:34see the the relative distribution
  • 24:35is of these three subtypes is
  • 24:37what we typically would expect.
  • 24:39A number of cases are classical
  • 24:42mesenchymal or per neural at recurrence.
  • 24:44We do appear to see a minor
  • 24:47shift towards mesenchomal tumor.
  • 24:48So we see a high number higher number
  • 24:51of mesenchomal tumors and recurrent.
  • 24:52So tumor progression appears to
  • 24:56and some tumors coincide with
  • 24:58mesenchomal transformation.
  • 25:00But perhaps more importantly,
  • 25:01we find that these subtypes are
  • 25:04these subtypes identifications.
  • 25:06Classifications are quite flexible
  • 25:07because nearly half of our cases actually
  • 25:10change subtypes between the initial
  • 25:12time point and a recurrent time point.
  • 25:17Now, like many tumor types,
  • 25:18glioblastoma has been extensively
  • 25:20studied using single cell sequencing
  • 25:23and single nucleus sequencing.
  • 25:25Our collaborator Mario Suva has let let
  • 25:27the field in this respect and published
  • 25:30a very influential paper in 2019,
  • 25:32the Neftal ET al.
  • 25:33Study which they found four
  • 25:36predominant cell states of
  • 25:38glioblastoma which they labeled
  • 25:40oligo progenitor cell like neuro,
  • 25:42progenital cell like astrocyte
  • 25:45like mesenchymol like.
  • 25:47You may notice that these terms are
  • 25:49actually reminiscent of the subtypes
  • 25:51that we had previously identified
  • 25:53and that's maybe not surprising.
  • 25:55If a tumor contains a majority
  • 25:58mesenchymal like cells,
  • 25:59the subtype signature will be mesenchymal.
  • 26:01We've shown this using combined bulk
  • 26:03RNA C and single cell RNA C data sets.
  • 26:08Oh, and another important thing to remark
  • 26:11here is that all GBMS each of the cell
  • 26:14states can be detected in all GBM's.
  • 26:16It's just a shift in numbers which
  • 26:20perhaps explains the plasticity
  • 26:22of expression subtypes over time.
  • 26:24Now my lab, Kevin and Kevin Johnson
  • 26:27and Kevin Johnson and Kevin Anderson
  • 26:28have worked together to do single
  • 26:30cell sequencing of gliomas as well
  • 26:33with the purpose of identifying
  • 26:35pan glioma cell states.
  • 26:37Mario's Neftal at all cell states
  • 26:39are focused on IDH well type tumors.
  • 26:41Our effort initially focused on
  • 26:43identifying cell states that could
  • 26:46be identified across different
  • 26:47types of glioma and we found those
  • 26:50we labeled them stem like cells,
  • 26:51proliferating stem like cell and
  • 26:53differentiated stem like cell.
  • 26:54And of course with single cell sequencing
  • 26:56you can also identify non malignant
  • 26:58cell states such as elutical dendrocytes,
  • 27:00parasites,
  • 27:00myeloid cells, cells,
  • 27:01cells that are typically residing in
  • 27:03the microenvironment of these gliomas.
  • 27:08Now you can take, you can infer
  • 27:11signature gene signatures from these
  • 27:13single cell States and you can then
  • 27:16use computational methods to project
  • 27:18those signatures on bulk RNA C datasets
  • 27:20such as the ones we have in glass.
  • 27:23So you can use single cell signatures to
  • 27:26deconvolute bulk expression profiles.
  • 27:31So Fred Verne, former post doc in the lab,
  • 27:33now a faculty member at the Jackson
  • 27:35laboratory, took this approach,
  • 27:38used the single cell inferred gene
  • 27:41signatures from the Kevins and projected
  • 27:44those onto the glass RNA C data sets.
  • 27:48This is showing on the left IDH.
  • 27:49Well the summary of IDH wild type tumors.
  • 27:52On the right the IDH mutant
  • 27:55tumors primary and recurrences.
  • 27:57So when we aggregate all the data,
  • 27:59first starting with IDH wild types,
  • 28:02when we aggregate the presence of the
  • 28:05single cell signatures across the cohort
  • 28:08and compare initial to recurrent tumors,
  • 28:11we do not find major shifts in our
  • 28:14Panvama cell state cell state presence.
  • 28:18Actually the major difference
  • 28:20we found when comparing initial
  • 28:23tumors to recurrent tumors is the
  • 28:26relative fraction of oligodenrocytes
  • 28:27in the tumor microenvironment.
  • 28:32And maybe this is not too
  • 28:35surprising if you look at the the
  • 28:39invasive margins of these tumors,
  • 28:41this is at the time of recurrence.
  • 28:43This is where most of the tumor cells will
  • 28:46have come from because this is the area
  • 28:48of the tumor that's difficult to resect.
  • 28:50So perhaps at recurrence you can
  • 28:52imagine that at recurrence more
  • 28:54of that margin is cut out.
  • 28:56Therefore, we might be able to see more
  • 28:59cells from that micro environment,
  • 29:01in this case particularly oligodenvrosites.
  • 29:06What what did seem more surprising
  • 29:09to us is then again when Fred used
  • 29:12computational methods to not just
  • 29:14count enumerate the types of cells in
  • 29:18primary to recurrent tumors but also
  • 29:20looked at the actual gene expression
  • 29:22profile of those cells that we found
  • 29:25that a significant increase in
  • 29:27neuronal signaling pathways amongst
  • 29:29the malignant cell population.
  • 29:32Of course you'll find neuronal
  • 29:33signaling and oligodendrocytes but
  • 29:35what we were finding is that also
  • 29:37the malignant cells activate neuronal
  • 29:39signaling pathways as recurrence.
  • 29:42So we're seeing an increase in
  • 29:45oligodendrocytes in the microenvironment
  • 29:46but that appears to be converging
  • 29:48with increased levels of neuronal
  • 29:51signaling by the tumor cells.
  • 29:54And when we use a public data set
  • 29:57consisting of multi biopsy single cell
  • 30:00RNA sequencing from glioblastoma patients,
  • 30:03we could again confirm that the
  • 30:06malignant single cells expressed
  • 30:08higher levels of neuronal pathways
  • 30:12when they were when the biopsies
  • 30:14were obtained from the margins of
  • 30:15the tumor relative to the core of the
  • 30:18tumor confirming what Fred had found
  • 30:20in our bulk analysis from glass.
  • 30:25I'm actually going to skip this one.
  • 30:27We decided this to then take
  • 30:29this one step further in a large
  • 30:31collaboration that involved Mario Suva,
  • 30:33Itai, T Rush, Antonio Yavarone,
  • 30:36Anna Lazarella as well as many
  • 30:39postdoc and junior leads in
  • 30:41in in these respective labs.
  • 30:43Collaborating with MD Anderson,
  • 30:44Duke and a number a number
  • 30:46of other institutions
  • 30:50we acquired. We generated longitudinal
  • 30:52single nucleus RNA seed data for a large
  • 30:55number of IDH wild type glioblastomas,
  • 30:57again in the context of annotation for
  • 31:00different types of therapy and we also
  • 31:02were able to generate exomorhol genome
  • 31:04sequencing on the majority of our core.
  • 31:09So previously Mario and colleagues
  • 31:14identified these four cell states that I
  • 31:16mentioned earlier, NPCOPCACMS like cells.
  • 31:21When we analyzed over 500,000 cells from
  • 31:24this cohort and again to derive cell states
  • 31:28as well as transcriptional meta programs,
  • 31:31we find these same 4 cell States and the gene
  • 31:34express's check features that come from them.
  • 31:37Again, here is OPC, AC,
  • 31:40mesenchymal, and NPC.
  • 31:41But of course we found many more
  • 31:44because of the much larger cohort
  • 31:46as well as because in his Mario's
  • 31:48initial study he had only untreated,
  • 31:50he included only untreated tumors.
  • 31:51And now we're looking at
  • 31:54both primary and recurrences.
  • 31:55So our large data set enabled
  • 31:57us to find the number of new
  • 31:59glioblastoma related cell programs.
  • 32:06As we had also observed
  • 32:09in our glass analysis,
  • 32:10the relative number of malignant
  • 32:13cells decreased at recurrence.
  • 32:14So recurrent GBMS become less
  • 32:17pure or more incorporate more
  • 32:20tumor microenvironment cells.
  • 32:21So we see a decrease in the number
  • 32:24of proportion of malignant cells
  • 32:25and an increase and we confirmed
  • 32:27the increase in the number of
  • 32:29oligodendrocytes that's because of
  • 32:30the greater resolution of the single
  • 32:32cell of the new single nucleus data.
  • 32:33We also see a significant increase
  • 32:35in the number of astrocytes in
  • 32:37the number of neuronal cells
  • 32:42converging with the result from glass
  • 32:45that most tumors or many tumors
  • 32:47change tumor subtype at recurrence.
  • 32:50We find large shifts in cell states
  • 32:54between primary and recurrent tumors
  • 32:57and the one that maybe is interesting is
  • 33:00hypoxia and I'll get back to that later.
  • 33:03So a subset of this smaller color compared
  • 33:07to glass acquired this small deletion
  • 33:09phenotype that I mentioned earlier.
  • 33:10In fact 10 of 46 tumors where we had
  • 33:14converging DNA sequencing and single
  • 33:17nucleus sequencing data acquired this
  • 33:19small deletion phenotype as shown here.
  • 33:22And what we're seeing is that when a small
  • 33:25deletion phenotype has been acquired,
  • 33:27tumors will increase.
  • 33:29We find that more tumor cells show signs
  • 33:32of hypoxia are responding to hypoxia.
  • 33:37So radiation either drives or
  • 33:42shows its most significant effects
  • 33:44in cells in regions of hypoxia.
  • 33:50When we then went back to our glass
  • 33:52data sets, we could confirm that
  • 33:54indeed tumors that acquire lots of
  • 33:56small deletions are also showing
  • 33:57an increase in hypoxic signaling,
  • 33:59hypoxia cell state signaling compared to
  • 34:01tumors that do not acquire small deletion.
  • 34:07This is potentially relevant because
  • 34:09hypoxia is a phenomenon you can
  • 34:11detect through imaging and of course
  • 34:14these results built upon large
  • 34:16and large amount of literature
  • 34:18demonstrating the convergence of
  • 34:20radiation response with hypoxia.
  • 34:26We then also focused,
  • 34:28we then also performed A comparable
  • 34:30analysis but looking at IDH mutant tumor.
  • 34:32So we generated single nucleus
  • 34:34RNA CC data on IDH mutants,
  • 34:38a cohort of 35 cases and this is
  • 34:40work led by Kevin Johnson who is a
  • 34:42research scientist in our lab again
  • 34:44with the same collaborator team.
  • 34:51Mario Nita's labs have previously
  • 34:54found that in IDH mutant tumors they
  • 34:58they found less consistent cell cell
  • 35:01state and gene expression programs.
  • 35:02But they found that all that most tumors
  • 35:06could be projected along an axis of stem
  • 35:10like to stem like Sigma from stem like
  • 35:14states to a more differentiated state.
  • 35:17Because IDH mutant tumors in general are
  • 35:20either astrocytoma or oligodenra glioma,
  • 35:23They showed that astrocyte
  • 35:28IDH mutant gliomas differentiate
  • 35:29from a stem like cell to a astrocyte
  • 35:33like cell phenotype whereas
  • 35:35oligodenrocytes go from a stem like
  • 35:37state to a more oligodenrocyte like
  • 35:40state as potentially expected.
  • 35:41So the non codels go to the left
  • 35:44and the codels go to the right.
  • 35:48In our paper from 2022 with
  • 35:50Fred as first author,
  • 35:51we had noticed that amongst IDH mutants
  • 35:56those that show signs of treatment
  • 35:59response either through hypermutation
  • 36:01or through acquired sydicand to a loss,
  • 36:04we saw an increase in the proportion
  • 36:07of proliferating stem like cells
  • 36:09which would be in the in the trunk
  • 36:12of the axis shown on the left.
  • 36:15So we took those results and we
  • 36:17took those into consideration as
  • 36:19we started to analyze these data.
  • 36:21So first we Kevin generated these U
  • 36:24maps that you can see in many papers.
  • 36:26We had generated data from large
  • 36:28numbers of nuclei,
  • 36:29I would say quite unprecedented to show
  • 36:32that you can infer your typical sets
  • 36:35of cell state programs as shown here.
  • 36:38So we have now generated a very
  • 36:40large number of IDH smooth and single
  • 36:42nucleus data and through that we can
  • 36:45create a definition of cell States and
  • 36:47associated metaprograms of IDH mutant tumors.
  • 36:50And the metaprograms we arrived at
  • 36:54actually are quite reminiscent of those
  • 36:56that are shown in IDH wild type tumors.
  • 37:03Interestingly, when we looked at the this,
  • 37:05when we projected the 35 cases that we
  • 37:09had analyzed that we had sequenced,
  • 37:11we projected them on that same
  • 37:13inferred Y axis as Mario and Itai had
  • 37:16previously used in their analysis.
  • 37:18We see that tumors tend to shift.
  • 37:20So there's the circles here
  • 37:21are the initial tumors and the
  • 37:23triangles are the recurrent tumors.
  • 37:26We see that nearly all tumors
  • 37:28shift into an upward direction.
  • 37:31So the relative amount of stem like or stem,
  • 37:34the relative amount of stemness
  • 37:36in these tumors almost universally
  • 37:39increases upon recurrence.
  • 37:41So tumor seems to de differentiate
  • 37:47as a part of their tumor progression.
  • 37:53This is also shown here.
  • 37:54These are different some of the different
  • 37:57meta programs that we had arrived at
  • 37:59looking at different grades amongst
  • 38:01Codells and non Codells and we see
  • 38:05that a differentiated differentiation
  • 38:07cell state such as the AC like
  • 38:10state decreases upon with grade.
  • 38:12And that's true for both Codells and non
  • 38:16Codells whereas undifferentiated and
  • 38:18number of cycling cells increases with grade.
  • 38:23And when we actually pair up the tumor,
  • 38:27so not split them by grade but
  • 38:29actually look at paired samples
  • 38:31again we confirm that the amount of
  • 38:34undifferentiated cells increases,
  • 38:36the amount of cycling cells increases,
  • 38:38cells that show signs of stress increases
  • 38:41in proportion and finally mesenchymal
  • 38:43like cells increase in proportion.
  • 38:49Now what is in my view most interesting
  • 38:53about these observations is when we now
  • 38:56separate our you know relatively modest
  • 38:58cohort but still into cases that have signs
  • 39:02of therapy induced genetic alterations.
  • 39:05But those are the ones that also
  • 39:07are also those are the ones that are
  • 39:09driving these significant changes.
  • 39:11So tumors that do not reflect therapy induced
  • 39:15genetic alterations such as hypermutation,
  • 39:17citic anti a loss or loss of new
  • 39:20aneuploidies, we find no significant
  • 39:22difference in cell states.
  • 39:24It's only those tumors that show a
  • 39:27treatment induced alteration that
  • 39:28are the ones that also show changes
  • 39:30in their gene expression programs.
  • 39:36So to then re annotate the
  • 39:39flow charts I showed earlier,
  • 39:42we're seeing that subsets of IDH
  • 39:44mutant as well as IDH wild type
  • 39:47tumors acquire genetic alterations
  • 39:48in response to treatment and we're
  • 39:51now finding using our bulk and
  • 39:53single nucleus our expression
  • 39:55gene expression datasets that
  • 39:57this coincides with increased cell
  • 39:59cycle activity and proliferation.
  • 40:02And D differentiation programs
  • 40:04and IDH mutant glomus but with
  • 40:08neuronal and mesenchomal signaling
  • 40:10activity and IDH wild type tumors.
  • 40:13So it leads me to summarize at the end here.
  • 40:17IDH wild type gliomas so far seem to
  • 40:20undergo tumor cell extrinsic changes
  • 40:22which sets them apart from IDH mutant
  • 40:25glomas which appear to a majority
  • 40:27undergo tumor cell intrinsic transitions,
  • 40:30which I think is a peculiar
  • 40:32but interesting difference
  • 40:35As we think about developing new
  • 40:38therapies for these patients,
  • 40:39this is something to take into consideration.
  • 40:43And finally amongst the IDH mutant clairomas,
  • 40:47the changes we are observing are mostly
  • 40:49observed when in those tumors that have
  • 40:52been treated and we find convergence
  • 40:55between newly acquired genetic
  • 40:57alterations with cell state transitions.
  • 40:59So that leads to the question,
  • 41:02are these tumors changing because
  • 41:04of the treatment or are the
  • 41:07oncologists treating the tumors that
  • 41:09are more likely to change or both?
  • 41:12That's something for a next analysis.
  • 41:15With that, I come to the end,
  • 41:17I'd like to thank all the people
  • 41:19in the lab that worked very hard
  • 41:21for these results and of course
  • 41:22our funding our funders.
  • 41:24Thank you very much.
  • 41:29Thank you. Jen had to run to the OR,
  • 41:31so I will handle the questions.
  • 41:33Do we have any questions
  • 41:34from the room or online?
  • 41:38You mentioned immunotherapy,
  • 41:40so are are there protocols now that
  • 41:42are using some of these markers to
  • 41:44determine who should get immunotherapy
  • 41:45and which ones in this disease.
  • 41:46So regrettably all the results so
  • 41:48far I've shown that checkpoint
  • 41:50inhibition does relative does little
  • 41:53for these patients and that's likely
  • 41:56because of the very immunosuppressive
  • 41:57microenvironment in these tumors.
  • 41:59There's very few active T cells.
  • 42:00So you can treat them at checkpoint
  • 42:02inhibition but without T cells that's
  • 42:04going to not really result in any benefit.
  • 42:07So moving forward the way to get
  • 42:09immunotherapies to work in these patients
  • 42:12would be to figure out how can we get
  • 42:15T cells into the tumor and only then
  • 42:17immunotherapy is is likely to have a chance.
  • 42:19Got it. OK.
  • 42:20Any questions in the room? OK.
  • 42:21I will walk the microphone around.
  • 42:23I'll go the front row here first.
  • 42:28Hello. Oh thanks. A beautiful talk and
  • 42:30I think you know just to it's something
  • 42:33that we are all hoping to be able to
  • 42:37replicate in different tumor types.
  • 42:40What a what a great example of a
  • 42:42a treasure trove of information.
  • 42:45My question is about epigenetic regulation
  • 42:47and I saw one slide with EZH 2
  • 42:50your thoughts or if you've looked
  • 42:52at sort of wrapping of chromatin
  • 42:55epigenetic regulation specifically
  • 42:58after radiation, if that's changed,
  • 43:00if we can explore that with some of our,
  • 43:02for example, ECH,
  • 43:03two or other regulators there,
  • 43:05inhibitors there,
  • 43:08that's a great question.
  • 43:11So just from a data perspective,
  • 43:13we have been able to collect
  • 43:15the NMS elation profiles,
  • 43:17other members of the glass
  • 43:19consortium have looked at those.
  • 43:21What we see in the IDH wild type tumors,
  • 43:23we don't see many changes from
  • 43:25a Dena methylation perspective.
  • 43:28These tumors have lots of things going on,
  • 43:30but it doesn't really seem to change
  • 43:32in directly their DNA methylation
  • 43:34profile and the IDH mutants.
  • 43:36We see that the subset of tumors goes
  • 43:38from a relatively high amount of genome
  • 43:41Y DNA methylation to a decreased amount.
  • 43:44So and those are the ones that
  • 43:46also are also the ones that change
  • 43:48that acquire genetic alterations
  • 43:49that change cell state programs,
  • 43:51those also seem to demethylate or
  • 43:55show demethylation genome wide.
  • 43:57Now whether that has implications
  • 43:59for treatment with ECH 2 inhibitors
  • 44:01would be a bit of a stretch.
  • 44:03I know those are being considered for
  • 44:07the H3 wild type pediatric GBMS for example,
  • 44:12but right now I don't have information on
  • 44:14whether that will work for for adults.
  • 44:17Great, we can go to Doctor
  • 44:18crop and then doctor Contessa
  • 44:19in the chat has a question.
  • 44:21So we'll get him queued up
  • 44:22to ask it verbally.
  • 44:25Ian, very nice talk.
  • 44:26And this question actually
  • 44:27is a little bit similar
  • 44:28to I think what Joe's getting at.
  • 44:31So you've shown that in the the subset
  • 44:34of the temozolomide treated patients
  • 44:36developed this hypermutated phenotype
  • 44:38and that's associated that leads to
  • 44:40poor outcomes in those patients.
  • 44:43It would seem that if you could
  • 44:44potentially if you could identify
  • 44:45those patients up front who were
  • 44:47going to go down that path with
  • 44:49treatment with temozolemide that
  • 44:50you may decide it may be in their
  • 44:52overall better outcome to avoid using
  • 44:54temozolemide in those patients.
  • 44:55So if you looked at baseline molecular,
  • 44:59molecular genomic characteristics
  • 45:01of the patients who go on to develop
  • 45:03hypermutator phenotype to be able to
  • 45:05if you could predict those up front,
  • 45:07yeah. So for ID, it's wild type
  • 45:08of course we have a great marker.
  • 45:09It's MGMT methylation, right.
  • 45:11So for that, I would say that's
  • 45:14already most largely addressed.
  • 45:15For IDH mutants,
  • 45:16we have not looked at this very much yet.
  • 45:19There's been another publication from
  • 45:21a group in China that has established
  • 45:23a large number of serial cases.
  • 45:26They have suggested that low level changes
  • 45:30in chromosome 8 would be predictive of
  • 45:34risk of developing hypermutation and
  • 45:36they link that functionally to MIC.
  • 45:39I think that data is interesting.
  • 45:41I think it could use some further
  • 45:43validation now as we are expanding
  • 45:45and working on our glass effort,
  • 45:46a major change relative to our latest
  • 45:50release and one we are working on right
  • 45:52now is that we've accumulated a large
  • 45:54amount of whole genome sequencing data.
  • 45:55And I'm excited about that because
  • 45:57with whole genome sequencing data,
  • 45:58you can do things with mutational
  • 46:00signatures and mutational signatures
  • 46:02would reflect for example,
  • 46:03potentially DNA damage repair processes
  • 46:05that are ongoing in these tumors.
  • 46:08So I'm hopeful that we can identify tumors
  • 46:10that have DNA damage repair processes
  • 46:12going on and that that would then be
  • 46:15repredictive of response to demosolomide.
  • 46:17That's all speculation.
  • 46:18So hopefully in a year from now or so,
  • 46:21we will have more definitive answers.
  • 46:23Thanks.
  • 46:23Great.
  • 46:24Doctor Contessa,
  • 46:24I'm told we don't have access
  • 46:26to allow him to talk.
  • 46:27Can I can you hear me a miracle?
  • 46:31Yeah, this is OK go ahead.
  • 46:32Oh, great role. That was fantastic.
  • 46:35Fantastic talk, very exciting.
  • 46:39So yeah, I just wanted to drill
  • 46:40down a little bit on the the
  • 46:42radiation induced mutations because
  • 46:44there is this question, right.
  • 46:46Is it that you're select that
  • 46:49after radiation it's a selective
  • 46:51pressure and you're winding up
  • 46:53you know finding those those
  • 46:56mutations that have gone on and been
  • 46:59propagated in in different clones.
  • 47:02And you know I think that
  • 47:03the main question is,
  • 47:04so if you're sequencing from a tumor
  • 47:07and considering the stochastic
  • 47:09nature of radiation are do you
  • 47:11think you're going to be able to
  • 47:13find those recurrent you know,
  • 47:15small deletions and isn't that
  • 47:17probably more consistent with you
  • 47:19have a resistant clone which might
  • 47:21be you know have adna repair defect
  • 47:23which enables radiation resistance and
  • 47:25so then you wind up having that you
  • 47:29know radiation resistant clone moving on.
  • 47:32And I and I think that's similar to
  • 47:33what you would see with CDK and 2A,
  • 47:35but I won't be too long.
  • 47:36And I guess my main question is,
  • 47:37so can you know you have these
  • 47:39two different possibilities,
  • 47:40Could you use a single cell analysis to
  • 47:42analysis to try to differentiate between,
  • 47:45right.
  • 47:46Is it the radiation that's
  • 47:48the cause or just the,
  • 47:50you know that it's the
  • 47:51the selective pressure?
  • 47:52Yeah. Thanks.
  • 47:53Thanks very much and and great question.
  • 47:55So if we take hybrid mutation
  • 47:58following tamizolomide as an example,
  • 48:00because of the specific mutational
  • 48:02signatures of mutations acquired
  • 48:04after mint temozolomide,
  • 48:06we're pretty sure that temozolomide is
  • 48:09actually causing these these changes.
  • 48:11And I think there's a lot of
  • 48:14similarities between the small
  • 48:15deletions acquired by after irradiation
  • 48:18to the temozolomite example.
  • 48:23One reason for saying that is that
  • 48:24we have taken cell line models and
  • 48:27irradiated them and then passes them for
  • 48:2925 times or so or have made sure they
  • 48:31went through a full cell cycle 25 * /
  • 48:34a period of let's say 3 or so months.
  • 48:37One of our MDP disease students
  • 48:39has done that in the lab.
  • 48:40And she said she showed that
  • 48:42after about 3 months,
  • 48:43you see a significant increase in the
  • 48:45number of small deletions and tumors
  • 48:47with or in cell lines with radiation
  • 48:49versus those that have not been irradiated.
  • 48:52And actually,
  • 48:52and she actually spoke with your student
  • 48:55after her exciting talk just two weeks ago.
  • 48:57So that to me suggests a
  • 49:00pretty strong causal link.
  • 49:01Also, the types of small deletions,
  • 49:04we've now made some progress
  • 49:05in analyzing them.
  • 49:06They carry a specific signature or they are
  • 49:08associated with this specific signature,
  • 49:10which again to me suggested
  • 49:12there's a direct causal link rather
  • 49:14than radiation causing clonal
  • 49:16outgrowth of a particular clone.
  • 49:21Yeah, I think that's what I wanted.
  • 49:23Yeah, thanks. We should connect
  • 49:25because I I have some some
  • 49:27more comments and discussion.
  • 49:29Great. I would love to. OK, I I just
  • 49:31unmuted. Doctor Robinson, do you want
  • 49:33to ask your question?
  • 49:36Yeah, phenomenal talk.
  • 49:36I was going to ask,
  • 49:38I think you already answered this
  • 49:39about the MGMT methylate if there's
  • 49:40a difference in patterns resistance.
  • 49:42But the other question I was going
  • 49:44to ask is you know has there
  • 49:46been efforts to kind of pursue
  • 49:47synthetic lethal screens of some
  • 49:48of these identified pathways,
  • 49:50So CD and K things like that,
  • 49:53That's a, it's a great suggestion.
  • 49:56My speculation is that probably
  • 49:57somebody has done that.
  • 49:58We're not doing those in the lab right now.
  • 50:01I guess you know challenges of
  • 50:03course exist even though tell us this
  • 50:06exists of course with getting any
  • 50:08kind of molecules into the brain,
  • 50:10you know if you have a target
  • 50:12most many of our clinical trial
  • 50:13failures that we've seen so far
  • 50:15are actually related to blood brain
  • 50:17barrier and and things like that.
  • 50:19So I think your your your
  • 50:20idea of course is very good.
  • 50:24It'll take a little bit longer
  • 50:26before we can actually see
  • 50:29drugs and treatments materialize from that.
  • 50:32And one follow up question,
  • 50:33one thing that's always really been
  • 50:35perplexing to me is that with EGFR 3 variants
  • 50:37that if you put those in a Petri dish,
  • 50:40those get selected out.
  • 50:41So they're actually disadvantageous
  • 50:42in a Petri dish.
  • 50:43But obviously we see them in
  • 50:45in real human tumors.
  • 50:46Do you have any any kind of
  • 50:48sense or any insights as to
  • 50:49why those are advantageous in
  • 50:51the real human environment,
  • 50:52But they're not in a Petri dish,
  • 50:54so it's hard to answer that directly.
  • 50:58Maybe it has to do with the types of
  • 51:01ligands that exist in the micro environment
  • 51:04versus those that exist in a Petri dish.
  • 51:06The the spin I would gift on this
  • 51:08is that we find that all V3 variants
  • 51:11exist on extra chromosomal DNAS.
  • 51:14So EGFR is is amplified when the V3 is
  • 51:18present and these amplifications typically
  • 51:20reside on extra chromosomal DNAS.
  • 51:23And there's a lot of, you know,
  • 51:27that does a lot of things to these cells,
  • 51:31including potentially putting a higher
  • 51:33burden on the cells to produce all
  • 51:36the DNA needed for the high numbers
  • 51:38of copies that typically exist when
  • 51:40there's extra chromosomal DNA.
  • 51:41So that could be one reason.
  • 51:43And in general,
  • 51:44I think EC DNA is very potent in
  • 51:48many ways and that probably has
  • 51:50to do with why these are selected
  • 51:52out more so than the V3 itself.