Understanding Medical Research
April 26, 2021Information
April 25, 2021
Yale Cancer Center
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- 00:00Support for Yale Cancer Answers
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- 00:07hope for people living with cancer.
- 00:10More information at astrazeneca-us.com.
- 00:14Welcome to Yale Cancer Answers with
- 00:16your host doctor Anees Chagpar.
- 00:18Yale Cancer Answers features the
- 00:20latest information on cancer care by
- 00:22welcoming oncologists and specialists
- 00:24who are on the forefront of the
- 00:26battle to fight cancer. This week,
- 00:28it's a conversation about understanding
- 00:30medical research with Doctor Perry Wilson.
- 00:32Doctor Wilson is the course director of
- 00:35Interpretation of the medical literature
- 00:36at the Yale School of Medicine,
- 00:38where Doctor Chagpar is a
- 00:41professor of surgical oncology.
- 00:43Perry, maybe we can start off by you
- 00:46telling us a little bit about yourself
- 00:48and what it is that you do.
- 00:51I'm a physician,
- 00:53and I specialize in internal
- 00:55medicine and nephrology,
- 00:56which is kidney diseases.
- 00:57But most of my time is spent
- 00:59doing clinical research.
- 01:01So my lab does clinical trials.
- 01:03We use a lot of what people
- 01:05might call big data approaches.
- 01:07Getting data and analysis into
- 01:09the electronic health record,
- 01:11but I think one of my real passions has been
- 01:14trying to explain medical
- 01:16research to everyone.
- 01:17It's something that I love to do.
- 01:20I love medical research.
- 01:21I think it's
- 01:23transformed humanity over the
- 01:24past century and I want to share
- 01:27that enthusiasm with people.
- 01:29And so I've been, on my
- 01:31off hours, writing columns
- 01:33about new medical studies trying
- 01:36to get people as excited as I am
- 01:39about the medical research process.
- 01:41And that's such a great
- 01:43thing to kick off with because,
- 01:46especially this year,
- 01:47there's been a lot of
- 01:50misinformation,
- 01:51a lot of ambiguity,
- 01:52a lot of trepidation on the part of
- 01:55the general public about medical research,
- 01:58so maybe you can start off by talking
- 02:01to us a little bit about how that
- 02:04misinformation gets propagated
- 02:06and what we can do about it.
- 02:09Sure, Covid has really turned
- 02:11up the level of medical misinformation.
- 02:13It's always been out there.
- 02:16It's even before the Internet there were
- 02:19people coming through
- 02:21with their patent medicines and
- 02:23tonics and trying to force
- 02:25something in a vial on an unsuspecting
- 02:28population that will always be there.
- 02:30There will always be people trying to
- 02:33make a buck from fake information,
- 02:35but as the Internet exploded and access
- 02:38to information became more available
- 02:40as social media exploded and the sharing
- 02:42of information became
- 02:44exponentially easier and then now with covid,
- 02:46it was really this perfect storm of medical
- 02:48information that we were
- 02:50all hit with.
- 02:52It was the first time I can remember
- 02:54where literally everyone was
- 02:55searching for the same thing on line
- 02:57when it comes to medical studies.
- 02:59So before covid,
- 03:00you had people that were
- 03:02looking for the latest diet that
- 03:03would help them lose a few pounds.
- 03:05And then
- 03:06of course you had people who might
- 03:08have had a new diagnosis like a
- 03:10new cancer diagnosis for example,
- 03:12and they're searching that.
- 03:13And there's misinformation in
- 03:15all those spaces,
- 03:16but all of a sudden 2020 comes and every
- 03:18single person is searching for any
- 03:21information they can find about covid.
- 03:23And in that environment you are
- 03:25going to get a lot of misinformation
- 03:27out there. And that's exactly what happened.
- 03:30But you know, Perry,
- 03:31it's really interesting because for
- 03:33many people they think the Internet
- 03:35was really the boon of information
- 03:37sharing and a great way for people
- 03:39to get high quality information and
- 03:41disseminate it across a large population.
- 03:44So I think one of the key issues is how do
- 03:47people distinguish from good information
- 03:49factual information versus misinformation.
- 03:52Both of them seem to be
- 03:54apparent on the Internet,
- 03:56but sometimes it's hard to tell them apart.
- 03:59Yeah, absolutely.
- 03:59And this is
- 04:01one of the double edged
- 04:03swords of our information age.
- 04:05So one thing I always remind
- 04:07people is that there is such a thing
- 04:11as a bad medical study. There is
- 04:13good data and bad data.
- 04:16There are good studies and bad studies,
- 04:19and when access to that information
- 04:21is so readily available so unfiltered
- 04:23or sometimes just filtered through
- 04:25the sort of biases of whoever's on
- 04:27your social media feed, it
- 04:29has become really easy to
- 04:31find information that confirms
- 04:33your previously held beliefs,
- 04:34and if there is one thing I sort
- 04:37of caution people against when they
- 04:40go looking for information is,
- 04:42do it with an open mind.
- 04:44Don't try to find things that confirm
- 04:46what you already believe to be true,
- 04:48because maybe that worked back in
- 04:50the day when you went into the
- 04:52encyclopedia and everything was
- 04:53sort of nicely laid out and had
- 04:55been vetted by an editorial board
- 04:57and things like that.
- 04:59But the problem with social media is
- 05:01similar beliefs cluster together. The
- 05:03social media algorithms on Twitter
- 05:06and Facebook and Instagram and all of
- 05:08the social media companies work the same way.
- 05:10They are designed to maximize engagement,
- 05:13which is eyeballs on the screen,
- 05:15clicks, likes,
- 05:16retweets etc.
- 05:16In that environment,
- 05:17things that are nuanced that are
- 05:20subtle that don't sort of confirm
- 05:22what people want to be true don't
- 05:24get a lot of engagement,
- 05:26and those things that are more
- 05:29exciting and dramatic,
- 05:31we've got a cure for covid in
- 05:33our medicine chest right now.
- 05:35It gets a ton of engagement and one
- 05:37of the things that we used to be
- 05:40able to do as humans was trust
- 05:42what we perceive as the majority opinion
- 05:44when a lot of people share an opinion,
- 05:47we would go around in our social lives
- 05:49and say, oh that's probably true.
- 05:52Most people sort of think this,
- 05:54and I've heard this from a number
- 05:56of people in social media,
- 05:58now it's possible to go down a rabbit
- 06:00hole of misinformation where every
- 06:01voice you see every link you click is
- 06:04reinforcing the false information.
- 06:06And what you then get is this
- 06:08erroneous perception that there's
- 06:10this wealth of data out there
- 06:12that's supporting your belief,
- 06:14when in fact it's all this
- 06:17self perpetuating engagement,
- 06:18and you've got to be able to
- 06:21get out of there.
- 06:23The easiest way is right off the bat,
- 06:26be honest with yourself.
- 06:27Ask yourself what you want to be true,
- 06:30and recognize that if you find data
- 06:33that supports what you want to be true,
- 06:36you even have to be extra
- 06:39skeptical about that type of
- 06:41data.
- 06:43I just finished reading Adam Grant's book,
- 06:46Think Again, which for if anybody is
- 06:49a big fan of Adam Grant or enjoys
- 06:53reading organizational psychologists,
- 06:54I highly recommend it.
- 06:56But it's exactly to your point about
- 06:59rethinking your biases.
- 07:02But you know Perry,
- 07:03it's really difficult, right?
- 07:05Because if you are looking for something,
- 07:07something appears to be true,
- 07:09it fits with your gut,
- 07:13you're more likely to
- 07:14think that that's right,
- 07:16so are there any objective ways
- 07:18for example,
- 07:18if patients or the people
- 07:21who are listening to our show today,
- 07:24they may have just been
- 07:26diagnosed with cancer,
- 07:27or they may be looking for other
- 07:30medical information and it's
- 07:31so easy to go to the Internet.
- 07:33Information at our fingertips.
- 07:35Are there any ways that you can
- 07:38really distinguish, intangible ways,
- 07:40Igood information versus garbage?
- 07:45There certainly are and it
- 07:47does take a
- 07:50little bit of work and
- 07:52it's the hardest thing in the
- 07:55world to disregard information
- 07:56that feels right to you.
- 07:58That speaks to you in that way because
- 08:01that is a very human thing that we all do.
- 08:05But I can
- 08:07give you a couple of tips.
- 08:09So number one,
- 08:11is that biologic plausibility
- 08:13is only the start of
- 08:14medical research, not the end,
- 08:16and what I mean by biologic
- 08:18plausibility is when something is
- 08:20stated that makes sense biologically.
- 08:24To give you an example,
- 08:25if I told you that if
- 08:29I wrapped my necktie around my head, it would
- 08:32help the arthritis in my knees,
- 08:34that's not biologically plausible.
- 08:36There's no real reason to
- 08:38think that that should work,
- 08:39so we don't pay much attention to that.
- 08:42But there are lots of examples
- 08:44of things that seem
- 08:46biologically plausible, for example,
- 08:47we know that as you age,
- 08:49there's more oxidative stress in your
- 08:52body and that oxidative stress might
- 08:54lead to some of the symptoms of aging
- 08:57like arthritis and stuff.
- 08:59We also have a chemical called
- 09:01vitamin E which is an antioxidant,
- 09:03and well reported as an antioxidant.
- 09:05It's biologically plausible,
- 09:06then that vitamin E would be
- 09:09good at helping against aging.
- 09:11Maybe might prevent heart
- 09:12attacks and things like that.
- 09:14Now a lot of people stop there.
- 09:17They say, oh that's biologically plausible.
- 09:19Oxidation is bad,
- 09:20antioxidant is good, vitamin E
- 09:21is cheap, it's at my drugstore.
- 09:23There's very limited side effects.
- 09:24You know this is great.
- 09:26It helps to confirm a belief that
- 09:28many of us want to be true that we
- 09:30can take charge of our lives without
- 09:33paying pharmaceutical companies and
- 09:34without having side effects.
- 09:36So there's a lot going for vitamin E,
- 09:38but let me tell you what
- 09:40happened with Vitamin E.
- 09:41They did a randomized trial of vitamin
- 09:43E and people who are at risk of heart
- 09:46disease and actually found not only
- 09:47was there no difference in
- 09:49the rate of heart attacks,
- 09:51the people taking vitamin
- 09:52E compared to placebo,
- 09:53but the people taking vitamin E
- 09:55had more heart failure.
- 09:57Statistically more heart failure than
- 09:58those taking placebo and again and again
- 10:01in medicine
- 10:01we see biologic plausibility,
- 10:03and actual efficacy getting untied.
- 10:04So what I tell people is that
- 10:07biologically plausible thing that you
- 10:08read about, like oh this is interesting,
- 10:11it works in cell culture,
- 10:13the mice seem to respond to this
- 10:15and it all sort of makes sense
- 10:17with how we understand the world,
- 10:19that's great, but that's only the beginning.
- 10:21You really want to see that randomized trial,
- 10:23not because
- 10:25I'm the kind of guy who
- 10:28I'm just following the rules and
- 10:29everything needs a randomized trial,
- 10:31it's because we've been burned
- 10:33so many times before,
- 10:34and I think that's what people don't realize.
- 10:36It's not like jumping
- 10:37through an arbitrary hoop.
- 10:38We've been wrong a lot when it
- 10:40comes to biologic plausibility,
- 10:42so I really do tell people
- 10:43we want a randomized trial.
- 10:45And if you want to be really sure you're not
- 10:48swallowing some patent medicine,
- 10:50you want to see a replication of that study.
- 10:52You want to see more than one study
- 10:54showing the same thing and ideally
- 10:57studies done by different people.
- 10:58You know different groups across the country
- 11:00or in different countries in the world.
- 11:02That's how you build an evidence base.
- 11:05And of course,
- 11:05that's what doctors jobs are, right?
- 11:07So one of the easiest things you
- 11:09can do if you have a trusted
- 11:11healthcare provider in your life,
- 11:13it is our job to be doing this and
- 11:16ask them. Talk to them.
- 11:18We're often excited to talk to you
- 11:21about what's real and what's not,
- 11:23and again,
- 11:24just hear it with an
- 11:26open mind.
- 11:28In terms of the information of looking
- 11:30for randomized control trials,
- 11:32especially that are all
- 11:34going in the same direction,
- 11:36because we've all seen randomized
- 11:38control trials that then are disproven
- 11:40by other randomized control trials.
- 11:43But you know, Perry,
- 11:44it's so difficult for the general
- 11:46public to actually access good
- 11:48randomized control trials.
- 11:50They're not really going to pubMed and
- 11:53searching the medical literature and
- 11:55looking at things with a critical eye.
- 11:58And in terms of talking to their doctor,
- 12:01that's certainly a great way to start.
- 12:03But there are also quote doctors
- 12:05who you can find on line who
- 12:08are spewing misinformation.
- 12:09So how do you kind of get around that?
- 12:13You've got to be careful,
- 12:16really anything that comes from social media,
- 12:19whether it's YouTube or Twitter.
- 12:21And hey, I'm on Twitter,
- 12:22but you do have to be careful
- 12:24because of the echo chamber effect.
- 12:27Someone can sort of wear the mantle of
- 12:29authority on social media based on sort
- 12:32of the number of followers and stuff
- 12:34that they have and that might make what
- 12:37they're saying seem more believable,
- 12:39when in fact it's not.
- 12:40And so you know, social media is fun.
- 12:43And interesting and a great
- 12:45place to share pictures.
- 12:46It's not where I recommend
- 12:48people do their research
- 12:49for medical questions.
- 12:50There are some absolutely wonderful
- 12:52medical reporters out there.
- 12:53So if you don't want to read the
- 12:57primary literature and
- 12:59pick up your copy of the New
- 13:01England Journal Medicine,
- 13:02there's some great science and
- 13:04medicine reporters out there.
- 13:05You want to look for reporters
- 13:07that that's their beat.
- 13:09Because of the slow death
- 13:11of the newspaper industry in America
- 13:14you get a lot of times the
- 13:16science and health, and
- 13:17even sports reporters are all
- 13:19the same person in some outlets.
- 13:20So you want to look for someone whose
- 13:22job is to write about health and medicine.
- 13:25They are often very well trained
- 13:27and are good nuanced
- 13:28and if you're
- 13:29reading about a new drug,
- 13:31a new treatment, you want to read
- 13:33from a couple of different people.
- 13:38There's some great writing,
- 13:39for example, in the Atlantic,
- 13:41the science section of the New York
- 13:43Times has always been very strong.
- 13:44Do they get it right 100% of the time?
- 13:47No,
- 13:48but that's why you look for other articles.
- 13:51That being said,
- 13:52it is not impossible for laypeople to
- 13:54go into the real medical literature and
- 13:57in fact I have a course
- 13:59online here at Yale,
- 14:00which is free called
- 14:02Understanding Medical Research:
- 14:03Your Facebook friend is wrong.
- 14:04It's on the Coursera platform you
- 14:07can search for it and basically
- 14:09it is an online course of 15
- 14:11minute lectures that you can watch
- 14:13over your lunch break
- 14:15where I teach you how to find a
- 14:17actual medical article,
- 14:18go to pub Med and how to find it,
- 14:21how to read it,
- 14:22and how to interpret the results.
- 14:24So if any of the listeners
- 14:26really want to get deep into this,
- 14:28really want to take that next step
- 14:30to understanding medical research.
- 14:31it's accessible you don't need
- 14:33a degree in chemistry.
- 14:34You don't need to remember calculus,
- 14:36you just need some logical thinking skills,
- 14:38and intuition so a little pitch for that course. It's free.
- 14:40And it's so
- 14:42important for people really to
- 14:44do your own research and be
- 14:46vigilant about it so that you're not
- 14:49taking other people's word for it.
- 14:50You're going to the source and
- 14:52knowing how to interpret that.
- 14:54We're going to take a short
- 14:55break for a medical minute,
- 14:57but please stay tuned to learn
- 14:59more about understanding medical
- 15:00research with my guest Doctor
- 15:02Perry Wilson.
- 15:03Support for Yale Cancer Answers
- 15:05comes from AstraZeneca, working to
- 15:09eliminate cancer as a cause of death.
- 15:11Learn more at astrazeneca-us.com.
- 15:15This is a medical minute about
- 15:18survivorship. Completing treatment for
- 15:20cancer is a very exciting milestone,
- 15:22but cancer and its treatment can be a life
- 15:25changing experience for cancer survivors.
- 15:28The return to normal activities and
- 15:31relationships can be difficult and
- 15:33some survivors face long term side
- 15:35effects resulting from their treatment,
- 15:37including heart problems,
- 15:39osteoporosis, fertility issues and
- 15:40an increased risk of second cancers.
- 15:43Resources are available to help
- 15:45keep cancer survivors well and
- 15:47focused on healthy living.
- 15:49More information is available
- 15:51at yalecancercenter.org.
- 15:52You're listening to Connecticut Public Radio.
- 15:56Welcome back to Yale Cancer Answers.
- 15:59This is doctor Anees Chagpar
- 16:01and I'm joined tonight by my guest
- 16:03doctor Perry Wilson and we're talking about
- 16:06understanding medical research.
- 16:08Perry, before the break
- 16:11we were talking about how much misinformation
- 16:13really is out there on the Internet,
- 16:16whether it's about covid or whether
- 16:18it's about cancer or whether
- 16:20it's about any topic really,
- 16:22whether it's medical or not.
- 16:24There is just so much misinformation
- 16:27that's propagated out there.
- 16:29So let's talk a little bit about some
- 16:32of the ways that we can mitigate that.
- 16:35You know, aside from being vigilant
- 16:38consumers of medical research,
- 16:40what else can be done to really
- 16:43kind of tamp down on all of the
- 16:46misinformation that's out there?
- 16:50This is a really hard problem
- 16:53that it's clear a lot of the social
- 16:56media companies are struggling with.
- 16:58As you know you see Facebook and Twitter
- 17:02for example, imposing essentially
- 17:03fact checking on some tweets,
- 17:05particularly surrounding hot button issues.
- 17:08For example, vaccination
- 17:10where they're literally
- 17:12blocking tweets, blocking posts that are
- 17:14construed by some of their
- 17:17moderators to be potentially anti VAX,
- 17:19for example this does
- 17:20strike some people as
- 17:22heavy handed.
- 17:23There are certainly concerns about
- 17:25is this going to have a chilling
- 17:27effect on speech?
- 17:29On the other side, people say that
- 17:31these are private companies that
- 17:33can do whatever they want
- 17:35within the confines of their own platform.
- 17:38It strikes me though,
- 17:39that it's a bit of whack-a-mole
- 17:41and that these efforts
- 17:43are reactive rather than proactive.
- 17:45What can we do to be more proactive?
- 17:48One of the things I've
- 17:50seen that's a little clever
- 17:52is Twitter has been generating a little
- 17:54pop up when you retweet an article
- 17:57if it notes that you haven't
- 17:59actually read the article.
- 18:05That's a whole other topic, right?
- 18:07Like how it knows
- 18:09whether you've opened the other
- 18:10you didn't look at the article,
- 18:12but I think what it's doing is
- 18:14the article will have a tweet with a link
- 18:21and it knows if you've clicked that
- 18:23link 'cause it's within Twitter.
- 18:25If you haven't and you click retweet,
- 18:27it's been saying, hey,
- 18:30do you want to maybe read this
- 18:32article before you retweet it?
- 18:35That is an interesting strategy because
- 18:37it takes the emotion slightly down.
- 18:39There's a tendency for people
- 18:41to share and retweet things that
- 18:43are emotionally activating.
- 18:45Whether they make you angry
- 18:46or make you happy.
- 18:48Whether it's a mama cat
- 18:50cuddling with baby kittens,
- 18:52or whether it's someone saying
- 18:55something terrible and caught on tape.
- 18:57Both of those strong reactions
- 18:59elicit a lot of engagement and
- 19:00trying to remove that a little bit,
- 19:02giving people a little extra time to say, wait
- 19:05do you really want to put this out there?
- 19:08Do you want to share this?
- 19:09Might help a little bit.
- 19:13My hope lies a lot with
- 19:15the younger generations.
- 19:16Honestly,
- 19:17who are growing up in this
- 19:18environment and in my opinion,
- 19:20are actually quite a bit more savvy.
- 19:23I agree with you.
- 19:24I think that even our patients who come in,
- 19:27many times the older
- 19:30generation sometimes will have heard
- 19:32things like sugar feeds cancer or
- 19:35it can stop all cancer and some of our
- 19:39younger patients or patients families,
- 19:42it's remarkable they will have gone
- 19:45to the literature and be quizzing
- 19:48you on the latest study that was
- 19:51published in the New England Journal
- 19:53or what just came out at ASCO.
- 19:56So it really does behoove us to
- 20:00be wary of what's out there now.
- 20:04Are there certain places where
- 20:06people should go to kind of look
- 20:09at the literature if they don't go
- 20:12to pubMed directly and again,
- 20:14your course will tell them how they can
- 20:17actually go to the primary literature,
- 20:20but are there certain websites
- 20:22that you think are
- 20:24generally pretty reliable versus
- 20:27kind of taking the latest weird
- 20:29theory that's out there?
- 20:32As I mentioned,
- 20:33some of the large news organizations
- 20:36that have dedicated science
- 20:37writers are a great tool,
- 20:39but if you really want dedicated sites,
- 20:43there's a couple of good sites,
- 20:45Medscape.com, andfFull disclosure,
- 20:47I have a weekly column on medscape.com
- 20:50but Medscape.com is a medical news website.
- 20:53It's an offshoot of WebMD which
- 20:55actually does a very nice job.
- 20:58They have dedicated reporters covering
- 21:00the latest medical studies,
- 21:01which is quite good, stat.com,
- 21:03which is another medical news focused
- 21:05website is quite good and
- 21:08as you're exploring there
- 21:10are other sites as well.
- 21:12And when you're exploring a site,
- 21:15I think one of the real hints as
- 21:18you're reading through as a reader to
- 21:21know about the quality here is
- 21:24look for emotion in the writing and if
- 21:27there is too much be worried.
- 21:30Real medical reading is often not
- 21:32the most exciting thing.
- 21:34This is not Hemingway.
- 21:35This is reporting on often nuanced
- 21:38medical studies and drugs that have
- 21:40some benefit but some risks.
- 21:43And if your reporting is expressive of that,
- 21:46then it's good reporting, latest
- 21:49breakthrough, Miracle Cure, New Silver Bullet.
- 21:52The end of blank diseases in sight.
- 21:54These highly emotional headlines are
- 21:56a good red flag that you're not on a
- 22:00site that's taking this very seriously.
- 22:02I mean it goes back to the old
- 22:05adage of if it sounds too good to be true,
- 22:09it likely is, and so I'll add to your list.
- 22:12I think that there are some
- 22:15good professional organizations
- 22:16that people can turn to.
- 22:19ASCO has some websites that are dedicated
- 22:23to patient information, cancer.net,
- 22:25for example, the American Cancer Society.
- 22:28Cancer.org has some great information
- 22:31and there are a variety of associations
- 22:36for whatever cancer my ail you,
- 22:39whether it's breast cancer or leukemia
- 22:43or colon and rectal cancer.
- 22:48Go to the
- 22:49organizations that are really
- 22:51doing the research into this,
- 22:53because very often they will
- 22:55publish that data and a good hint
- 22:58is to look for the footnotes,
- 23:00because very often they will lead you
- 23:02to the studies and to the literature
- 23:05that they're citing in making the
- 23:08claim that they they have so and so.
- 23:10We have some of that data for
- 23:14cancer, and I think that
- 23:17because cancer has been around
- 23:19for a long time,
- 23:20a lot of the misinformation now I think it's
- 23:24starting to die down. There still are some
- 23:26old wives tales out there like
- 23:29sugar feeds cancer or tumeric
- 23:31will cure all cancers.
- 23:33PS for our listeners,
- 23:35neither of those two statements are true.
- 23:38But for novel diseases,
- 23:40things like Covid, it's a lot harder.
- 23:43I think for people,
- 23:44especially initially to weed
- 23:46out some of that misinformation.
- 23:48So what are some of the misinformation
- 23:51hot buttons that you found
- 23:53out there that are propagated
- 23:55that you'd like to dispel?
- 23:58Oh my
- 23:58gosh, Covid has really given
- 24:01those of us who like to correct
- 24:04the record in Medicine a lot to do.
- 24:06It's been a full time job in Covid
- 24:08and I think in part it gets back to
- 24:11that idea of motivated reasoning.
- 24:14We all hate this pandemic.
- 24:16Every single one of us wants
- 24:18nothing more than for it to be over,
- 24:21and if there were some simple cure
- 24:23that was cheap and effective and
- 24:25worked 100% of the time oh my gosh,
- 24:28it would be amazing.
- 24:29We all want that and so you
- 24:31had this proliferation of data
- 24:33coming out early in Covid
- 24:35and I think that's sort of prototypical.
- 24:37One was the study surrounding
- 24:39Hydroxychloroquine which
- 24:40is an anti-malarial drug
- 24:41that's also used for lupus,
- 24:43which is an autoimmune disease.
- 24:44An old drug that with a lot of
- 24:47experience with and the truth is
- 24:49relatively safe as some drugs go,
- 24:51although there can be risks of cardiac
- 24:53arrhythmias in people who take it,
- 24:54but it's not
- 24:56the most toxic drug in the world,
- 24:58and some early studies,
- 25:0010-20 people suggested that maybe
- 25:02they get a little better faster now.
- 25:04Skip ahead and I'll tell you that large
- 25:06clinical trials have been done
- 25:08now I think we're at 9 or 10 large
- 25:10clinical trials of hydroxychloroquine.
- 25:12All of them negative.
- 25:15That's fairly well confirmed,
- 25:16but initially there was this
- 25:18huge enthusiasm surrounding it.
- 25:20And to the point where you know
- 25:22people were stockpiling the
- 25:24stuff people were taking it,
- 25:26and I think it fed what we wanted to believe,
- 25:29which was that there was a solution.
- 25:32And unfortunately the truth
- 25:35it's rare that things work that well.
- 25:37It's just unlikely that no
- 25:39matter what comes down the pipe,
- 25:41the cure is going to be something
- 25:43in your medicine cabinet that
- 25:45just doesn't happen very often.
- 25:47The exception being maybe
- 25:48like scurvy and vitamin C,
- 25:50and even that took a randomized trial
- 25:52to figure out back on the high seas.
- 25:55So that was certainly a big one.
- 25:59What's more concerning,
- 26:00I think even then the medication stuff
- 26:02is the vaccination issues in covid,
- 26:04so these are new vaccines.
- 26:06A lot of vaccine hesitancy at baseline
- 26:08kind of brought up to a degree by
- 26:10the fact that there are some new
- 26:12technologies in these vaccines,
- 26:14like MRNA technology,
- 26:15which I will point out,
- 26:17is new in the sense that we've never
- 26:19done it broadscale treatment with it,
- 26:22but is not new.
- 26:23It's actually been in clinical
- 26:25use for more than a decade now,
- 26:27but still new stuff for people,
- 26:29and we're seeing a lot of misinformation
- 26:31about what is in the vaccine,
- 26:33how the trials were done.
- 26:34I was reading on social media that
- 26:37people were saying that the trials
- 26:39were inoculating their volunteers with
- 26:41Covid when they walked through the door,
- 26:43which is a trial design
- 26:45that is quite controversial
- 26:47and is not what happened in these
- 26:49large clinical trials.
- 26:51And the problem of course with this
- 26:54misinformation is that this really does hurt
- 26:57our ability to end this pandemic, because
- 26:59the vaccines are the best tools we have.
- 27:04There's lots of misinformation
- 27:05around masks as well.
- 27:07You still see posts saying that
- 27:09masks reduce your blood oxygen content
- 27:11or increase the carbon dioxide content.
- 27:13You're a surgeon.
- 27:14My wife is a surgeon.
- 27:15She is wearing a mask for
- 27:178 hours a day, every day,
- 27:19and her oxygen level is perfectly fine.
- 27:21She doesn't get lung disease or
- 27:23infections that's still out there,
- 27:24and it really does
- 27:25hurt our ability
- 27:27to end the pandemic faster.
- 27:28We're kind of shooting ourselves
- 27:30in the foot with this stuff.
- 27:32The other big
- 27:34piece of misinformation, I
- 27:35was watching the news the other
- 27:37day and they were saying that
- 27:3933% of Americans that
- 27:42were surveyed in this one poll
- 27:46felt that Covid was not real.
- 27:49And you kind of shake your head and
- 27:51you say we're now over half a million
- 27:54people dead in this country of a
- 27:56disease that you think is not real.
- 28:01And for people, including myself,
- 28:02and I'm sure you as well have cared for
- 28:05these patients in the hospital that
- 28:06it's particularly painful to hear that.
- 28:09And of course, some of us have
- 28:11lost loved ones to the disease.
- 28:13But you know, again
- 28:14I'm trying to do my best to
- 28:16understand where this comes from,
- 28:18and I do think it comes
- 28:20from a place of desire.
- 28:22Why do people believe that it's not real?
- 28:24Because they don't want it to be real,
- 28:26and if we just ask people,
- 28:28be aware of your motivations
- 28:30and be skeptical of data that only
- 28:33confirms what you want to be true,
- 28:35people will be in good shape.
- 28:37Doctor Perry Wilson is the course
- 28:39director of Interpretation of the medical
- 28:41literature at the Yale School of Medicine.
- 28:44If you have questions,
- 28:45the address is canceranswers@yale.edu
- 28:47and past editions of the program
- 28:49are available in audio and written
- 28:51form at yalecancercenter.org.
- 28:52We hope you'll join us next week to
- 28:55learn more about the fight against
- 28:57cancer here on Connecticut Public Radio.